The Great Myths 7: “Hitler’s Pope”?

The Great Myths 7: “Hitler’s Pope”?

In God is Not Great the New Atheist writer Christopher Hitchens describes how March 2 1939 saw “the death of an anti-Nazi pope and the accession of a pro-Nazi one”. The claim that Pius XII was friendly with, or at least passively acquiescent to, the Nazi regime is an unquestioned dictum in New Atheist circles. This is despite the fact the claim Pius XII was “Hitler’s Pope” is a total distortion of history.

Pius XII

Hitchens and “Hitler’s Pope”

Christopher Hitchens was a provocateur and a polemicist rather than a careful and balanced journalist and, as such, he never let small things like nuance, counter-arguments or objectivity get in the way of his invective. Whether the point he was making was solid (e.g. condemning Hitler) or dubious (e.g. justifying the US invasion of Iraq), he drove it with steely determination. This meant that if he found a source that fitted his agenda, he drew on it heavily and reinforced its points with his characteristically trenchant and unapologetic rhetoric. Subtlety and balance were not his fortes.

So it is not surprising that when Hitchens turns to the topic of the relations between the Catholic Church and the Third Reich in his 2007 book God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, Hitchens depends heavily – in fact, almost entirely – on John Cornwell’s 1999 work Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII. After damning the Church with faint praise for denouncing the Nazis’ “hideous eugenic culling from a very early date” (p. 285), Hitchens says that this is about where the Church’s condemnation stopped:

To decide to do nothing is itself a policy and decision, and it is unfortunately easy to record and explain the church’s alignment in terms of a realpolitik that sought, not the defeat of Nazism, but an accommodation with it.

(p. 285)

These are strong words and bold claims, but Hitchens goes on:

The very first diplomatic accord undertaken by Hitler’s government was consummated on July 8, 1933, a few months after the seizure of power, and took the form of a treaty with the Vatican. In return for unchallenged control of the education of Catholic children in Germany, the dropping of Nazi propaganda against the abuses inflicted in Catholic schools and orphanages and the concession of other privileges to the church, the Holy See instructed the Catholic Centre Party to disband, and brusquely ordered Catholics to abstain from any political activity on any subject the regime chose to define as off-limits. …. The twenty-three million Catholics living in the Third Reich …. had been gutted and gelded as a political force. Their own Holy Father had in effect told them to render everything unto the worst Caesar in human history.

(p. 286)

Hitchens is referring to the 1933 Reichskonkordat which he, like Cornwell, depicts as a cynically Faustian bargain whereby the Vatican cosied up to the Third Reich to get some convenient concessions in return for easing Hitler’s seizure of total power. He notes a “parallel moral collapse of the German Protestants”, but goes on:

None of the Protestant churches , however, went as far as the Catholic hierarchy in ordering an annual celebration for Hitler’s birthday on April 20. On this auspicious date, on papal instructions, the cardinal of Berlin regularly transmitted “warmest congratulations to the führer in the name of the bishops and dioceses of Germany”, these plaudits to be accompanied by “the fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.” The order was obeyed and faithfully carried out.

(pp. 286-7)

Here Hitchens introduces the villain of his story. He notes that the ailing Pope Pius XI “had always harboured profound misgivings about the Hitler system”, but says the ageing pope was “continually outpointed, throughout the 1930s, by his secretary of state, Eugenio Pacelli”, who succeed him as Pope Pius XII in March 1939. He depicts the scheming Pacelli as stymieing his predecessor’s anti-Nazi efforts and then quotes (Cornwell’s version of) the letter the new pope sent to Berlin four days after his election:

“To the illustrious, Herr Adolf Hitler, Führer and Chancellor of the German Reich! Here at the beginning of our pontificate we wish to assure you that we remain devoted to the spiritual welfare of the German people entrusted to your leadership. For them we implore God the Almighty to grant them that true felicity which springs from religion.We recall with great pleasure the many years we spent in Germany as Apostolic Nuncio, when we did all in our power to establish harmonious relations between Church and State. Now that the responsibilities of our pastoral function have increased our opportunities, how much more ardently do we pray to reach that goal. May the prosperity of the German people and their progress in every domain come, with God’s help, to fruition!”

(pp. 287-88)

Hitchens declares this to be an “evil and fatuous message” and evidence that it marked “the death of an anti-Nazi pope and the accession of a pro-Nazi one”. The story he tells is clear and unequivocal: any chance that the Catholic Church could have stood against Hitler was wrecked by the scheming “pro-Nazi” Pope Pius XII who traded the German people, the peace of Europe and the fate of multitudes for a deal of convenience with the worst tyrant in history, while sending warm wishes to Hitler and cheering his birthday as millions died.

Of course, Hitler and the Nazis are, justifiably, seen as a touchstone of pure evil and so, inevitably, have become a rhetorical stick with which to hit opponents in debate. Comparisons with or links to the Nazis have become such a cliche in debates that “Godwin’s Law” has been an internet adage since 1990 and everyone from Pope Benedict XVI (an anti-Nazi who was forced to join the Hitler Youth as a teenager) to Barack Obama (a “socialist” and, therefore, a Nazi, apparently) have been linked to the Nazis. Christian apologists regularly characterise the Nazi regime as “atheistic”, despite the fact Hitler often spoke of his belief in God, closed down atheist organisations and said atheism was “a return to the state of the animal”. So atheist activists counter this by not only noting the Nazi regime was not atheistic, but linking it as closely as possible to Christianity.

Hitler, we are informed, was “a Catholic in good standing until he died”. Various quotes from Hitler’s speeches and his book Mein Kampf are listed as evidence he was a Catholic, certainly a Christian and a great fan of the church. The German Wehrmacht, we are told, marched to war proudly wearing belt buckles inscribed with the Christian motto “Gott Mit Uns” (God With Us) :

Gott MIt Uns

And not only were the Nazis allegedly enthusiastic Christians, but we are assured the Catholic Church were enthusiastic Nazis. Just look at these bishops alongside Joseph Goebbels in 1935:

Nazi Salute

Or these priests giving the Nazi salute at a youth congress:

Nazi Priests>

Or Papal Nuncio Cardinal Cesare Orsenigo at a Nazi rally:

Orsenigo at Nazi Rally

Or Pope Pius XII himself being honoured by Nazis in 1939 (a photo used on the cover of many editions of Cornwell’s Hitler’s Pope):

Pacelli and Nazis?

With evidence like this, how can anyone doubt Hitchens’ appraisal that Pius XII was Hitler’s friend and ally and the Catholic Church was complicit in or at least passive in the face of the atrocities of the Nazis?

Priest, Bolshevik and Jew
Nazi cartoon depicting Germany’s enemies – The Jew, the Communist and the ‘political priest”.

The Long Shadow of the ‘Kulturkampf’

The reality is that the history of relations between the Catholic Church and the German state, both before and during the Third Reich, was actually one of hostility, suspicion and fear. In the wake of the Napoleonic Wars, the German Confederation (Deutscher Bund) was formed at the Council of Vienna in 1815. This linked 39 German-speaking states into a kind of economic and political union, but its largest and most powerful members were the bitter Hapsburg and Hohenzollern rivals Austria and Prussia and it was doomed to some kind of failure as a result. For the next 50 years those striving to form a true German state out of the Confederation’s patchwork argued over whether they would settle for the so-called Kleindeutsch solution, which excluded Austria, or the Großdeutsch alternative, which included it. Prussia’s Otto von Bismarck slowly increased his state’s power within the Confederation and after victory in the Franco-Prussian War in 1871, he declared a new, united German Reich with the Prussian king Wilhelm as Kaiser. The new state excluded Austria, was ruled by a Hohenzollern monarch and was dominated by the Prussians.

All this had profound implications for the relations between the new state and the Catholic Church. Prussia and the dominant northern German states were substantially Protestant and Bismarck was a devout Lutheran and vehemently anti-Catholic. And in the 1870s plenty of people felt they had something to fear in a newly aggressive and triumphalist Catholicism. As part of his reaction to the rise of rationalism, modernism and liberalism, the highly conservative Pope Pius IX called the First Vatican Council (1868-70), which enshrined a number of new dogmas, culminating in the declaration of Papal Infallibility in 1870. The idea that the Pope was infallible when making formal ex cathedra pronouncements on faith and morals was not new, but many of the assembled bishops opposed a formal dogmatic assertion of it on both doctrinal and political grounds. The Austrian and German bishops, in particular, argued it would be seen as a political threat and provoke a backlash by non-Catholic powers.

And this is precisely what happened in the new German state. Almost immediately, Bismarck and other German politicians took action to limit Catholic interference in politics. In 1871 the “Pulpit Law” was passed, banning political statements in sermons. In 1872 the Schools Supervision Act banned clergy from all schools and the Jesuit Order, seen as agents of Papal political subversion, was expelled from Germany. Resistance by Catholic clergy saw the Expiration Law in 1874, which mandated exile for clergy who defied the authorities.

Ultimately, however, the Kulturkampf against the Catholic Church in Germany failed. Far from damping down Catholic engagement in politics, the repression stirred up opposition, particularly in the Catholic south and west of Germany, and saw the rise of the Centre Party. German bishops who had previously been fairly nationalist in outlook reacted by becoming increasingly ultramontane and Bismarck drove senior clergy who had been sceptical of Pius IX’s policies into his arms. More alarmingly, secularists seized on arguments and laws against Catholic activity in politics, education and the public sphere and began applying them to all religions, to the dismay of Bismarck’s Protestant base. The Chancellor wound back the Kulturkampf and by the late 1870s the more moderate Pope Leo XIII had negotiated away most of the German legal restrictions.

Despite this, the Vatican remained highly wary of the German state and German Catholics, especially in the Catholic majority regions of Bavaria, Baden and Alsace-Lorainne, did not quickly forget how the Prussian-dominated federal government had treated their church in the 1870s. To both, the period that followed felt more like a truce than a peace.

With Germany’s defeat in the First World War the Centre Party, which was still substantially Catholic, held a prominent position in the governments of the Weimar Republic, maintaining coalitions with the more left-wing Social Democratic Party (SPD) and German Democratic Party (DDP). This was not entirely pleasing to the Vatican, with Pope Pius XI regarding the SPD and DDP as dangerously socialist. Despite this, this “Weimar Coalition” prevented any dominance of the German Reichstag by either the Communist Party (KDP) on the far left or radical nationalists on the far right. From 1925 the latter included and were eventually dominated by the Nazi Party. After the failure of his abortive coup in November 1923 and on his release from prison in April the following year, Hitler sought to win power legitimately, via the ballot box, and began a ten year campaign to win a majority in the Reichstag.

Pacelli and Jewish Wife

The Future Pope and the Future Führer

Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli was in an unique position to assess the Nazis, since from 1917 to 1920 he was Papal Nuncio to the highly Catholic state of Bavaria and from 1920 to 1929 he moved to Berlin to be Nuncio to Germany generally. This means he was in Bavaria to witness the rise of the Nazi Party there and then in the German capital to see the beginnings of Hitler’s rise to power.

Pacelli came from a family which had served the Holy See in some capacity for several generations. His grandfather, Marcantonio Pacelli, had been minister of finance for Pope Gregory XVI, deputy minister of interior under Pope Pius IX from 1851 to 1870 and founder of the Vatican Observatory. Both his father Fillipo and his brother Francesco had been lawyers with the Congregation of the Sacred Rota – the Catholic Church’s highest appellate court. He was a highly intelligent young man, who excelled academically and reportedly had a photographic memory. He was also highly strung, solitary and nervous, with a notoriously weak stomach and a speech impediment, though he strove to overcome some of his natural reticence by taking up public speaking, acting and playing the violin in recitals.

He was ordained in 1899 and, somewhat reluctantly, accepted a post in the Vatican’s State Secretariat under the newly elevated Pope Leo XIII in 1901, thus turning from his desire to be a simple parish priest and beginning a 57 year career in the Vatican. The young Father Pacelli’s mentor was Monsignor Pietro Gasparri, undersecretary at the Secretariat’s Department of Extraordinary Affairs. Gasparri told Pacelli that the Department’s role was the “necessity of defending the Church from the onslaughts of secularism and liberalism throughout Europe” and the young priest was groomed to be a Papal diplomat to this end. In 1904 he completed his doctorate with a thesis on the relationship between canon law and Papal concordats with secular states – a subject which would shape many of his later policies.

Pacelli rose through the ranks as his mentor Gasparri did, becoming an undersecretary in the Vatican Secretariat in 1914, and his skill as a diplomat saw him appointed Papal Nuncio to the highly Catholic German state of Bavaria in 1917, based in Munich. This means Pacelli was in a box seat to see the effects of Germany’s defeat in World War I in the political hotbed of Bavaria – the humiliation of the Treaty of Versailles, the declaration of the Free State of Bavaria, the Communist Uprising of April 1919 and the short-lived Bavarian Soviet Republic and then its violent repression by the Germany Army and right-wing Freikorps militias the following month.

Adolf Hitler had returned to Bavaria at the end of the War, but his lack of prospects for employment meant he stayed in the Army. He was picked by one of his officers to act as an intelligence agent and infiltrate and report on a new, small, right wing nationalist group called the German Worker’s Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or DAP). The Party’s Chairman, Anton Drexler, took a shine to Hitler and in 1920 Hitler was discharged from the Army and began working for the Party full-time. It had since changed its name to the National Socialist German Workers Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP) – the Nazis.

The Nazi Party was tiny, generally uninfluential and just one of a plethora of similar radical groups at both extremes of German politics in this period. Despite this, perhaps because of his proximity to its geographical base, Pacelli was quick to note the danger the new party’s ideology could pose. As early as 1921, the Nuncio noted in a newspaper interview:

The Bavarian people are peace-loving. But, just as they were seduced during the revolution by alien elements – above all, Russians – into the extremes of Bolshevism, so now other non-Bavarian elements of entirely opposite persuasion have likewise thought to make Bavaria their base of operations.

(Bayerischer Kurier, Oct 1, 1921)

This was a none-too-subtle reference to Hitler’s Austrian origins and the nascent radical threat posed by the Nazis and made when most people paid them little attention. Pacelli was not alone among high ranking Catholic prelates who recognised the threat of the Nazis early on. Other German bishops warned about the “paganism”, racism and anti-Christian nature of the Nazi ideology as early as 1920. An Army chaplain, Father Rupert Mayer had initially supported Hitler, but changed his mind as he realised the nature of the Nazis and in 1923 gave a speech to a conservative audience entitled “Can a Catholic be a National Socialist?”. The crowd howled him down when it became clear his answer was “no”.

Pacelli also noted the anti-Semitism of the Nazis, writing to Pope that the “followers of Hitler and Ludendorff ” were persecuting Catholics in part because of their condemnation of attacks on Jews. On November 14 1923, days after the failure of Hitler’s “Beer Hall Putsch”, he reported that the house of Cardinal Archbishop Michael von Faulhaber of Munich had been surrounded by Nazis chanting “Down with the Cardinal!” over his condemnation of Nazi anti-Semitism a week earlier. In May the following year Pacelli wrote in a draft report that “Nazism is probably the most dangerous heresy of our time”. Three days later another of his reports to Rome states:

The heresy of Nazism puts state and race above everything, above true religion above the truth and above justice.

(Archivo Segreto Vaticano, Arch. Nunz. Monaco365,Fasc.7, Pos. XIV, Bavaria, p. 75)

These are clearly not the words of a man who can be described as “pro-Nazi”.

Mein Kampf

Hitler and Christianity

Hitler’s mother was a devout Catholic and so he was baptised into the faith as a baby. The young Hitler, however, did not share his mother’s piety and was only confirmed as a Catholic at the age of 15 very reluctantly and at her insistence. According to several reports, he ceased attending Mass once he left home at 18 and seems to have abandoned all practice of the Catholic faith around this stage.

The evidence regarding his adult beliefs is complex, but it does not support the idea that he was a Christian, let alone a Catholic. Nor does it support the idea that he was an atheist, despite the claims of some Christians. Hitler made repeated, unambiguous references to his belief in God or what he called “Divine Providence” and did so both in his public speeches and writings but also in his private conversations. He also actively rejected atheism, which he associated with Bolshevism and socialism generally and which he declared to be “a return to the state of the animal”. But unlike several leading Nazis, particularly Party ideologue Albert Rosenberg, Hitler Youth leader Baldur von Schirach and SS head Heinrich Himmler, Hitler had little interest in the occult or Germanic neo-paganism. He said that moribund beliefs died out for good reason and ridiculed those “who brandish scholarly imitations of old German tin swords, and wear a dressed bearskin with bull’s horns over their heads”.

His views on Jesus are best described as “eccentric”, as he seems to have regarded him as an Aryan warrior battling the forces of “Jewishness”. In 1922 he declared:

My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognised these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison.

(Speech delivered at Munich 12 April 1922)

Here Hitler depicts Jesus not only as a “fighter” but as an anti-Semite and it is telling that the gospel episode he cites is the only one where Jesus is depicted as engaging in an act of violence. Of course, many have noted his words “my feeling as a Christian” both here and in other speeches as well as in his manifesto, Mein Kampf, as evidence that he did regard himself as a Christian. However, this and similar statements need to be understood in context.

As already mentioned, in November 1923 the Nazis tried to seize power by force, staging a coup by seizing key Bavarian politicians in a Munich beer hall and declaring Hitler head of a new government. This putsch quickly collapsed and Hitler and other leading Nazis were jailed. Hitler decided that armed revolution was not the path to power and used his imprisonment to write Mein Kampf, laying out his vision of a new greater Germany. On his release in 1924 Hitler then undertook a decade long campaign to win power via the ballot box.

One of his problems was the fact that Germany was substantially Christian – 64% Protestant and 32% Catholic – and much of Hitler’s ideology was counter to fundamental Christian ideas. So he did his best to present himself as friendly to Christianity in general, mainly condemning “political priests” and any form of Christianity that was not sufficiently “nationalist” and stridently “German”.

In Mein Kampf Hitler characterised Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular as an impediment to “Pan-Germanism” and noted that in the Kulturkampf of the previous century “the Catholic clergy was infringing on German rights”. He wrote:

Thus the Church did not seem to feel with the German people, but to side unjustly with the enemy. The root of the whole evil lay … in the fact that the directing body of the Catholic Church was not in Germany, and for that very reason alone it was hostile to the interests of our nationality.

He depicted a future where Catholicism would be tolerated if subordinated to a predominant German nationalism and did nothing to impede a fiercely nationalistic politics. At the same time, he recognised that Bismarck’s overt persecution of Catholicism had backfired and seems to have been keen not to repeat this mistake. This is why in the period from 1924 to his seizure of power in 1933 he was careful not to offend Christian sensibilities and made carefully-worded public declarations that presented his ideology as broadly compatible with a suitably patriotic and German Christianity. Analysis of these public statements on Christianity shows that they appear mainly prior to 1933 and become far more vague and increasingly sparse once Hitler had secured power.

It should be noted that New Atheist polemicists who quote the 1922 speech where Hitler refers to his “feeling as a Christian” always truncate it to leave out what came before that statement:

I would like to appeal here to a greater man than I: [Bavarian Prime Minister] Count Lerchenfeld. He said in the last Landtag that his feeling ‘as a man and Christian’ prevented him from being an anti-Semite. I say: my feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter …

So Hitler is not offering some unprompted avowal of faith, but is trying to counter and undermine a rejection of anti-Semitism that was based on Christianity. This is patent rhetoric, served up for public consumption by a wily politician who was a known liar.

In private Hitler was far more open in his views and made statements like:

Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.

According to his followers’ paraphrases, he stated “Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature” and declared “the best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death”. As early as 1920 the Nazi Party declared acceptance of what it called “Positive Christianity”, which was a strange hybrid of some Christian ideals and Nazi nationalist ideas. This is generally seen as largely a political ploy to undermine the opposition of both the Catholic hierarchy and the anti-Nazi Protestant “Confessing Church”, though it was broadly compatible with Hitler’s odd ideas about Jesus as an Aryan anti-Semite and allowed some Nazis, like Goebbels, to juggle their Christian beliefs with their political ideology.

Overall, the evidence indicates that Hitler was a manipulative politician who could pay careful lip-service to Christian ideas where and when it suited him. He was clearly a theist, but claims he was a Christian do not stack up and depend mainly on pre-1933 public statements and writings and some isolated later statements (e.g. his reported 1941 declaration to General Gerhard Engel that “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”) which are either rhetorical or flatly duplicitous. Hitler was not a pagan and was not an atheist. But he was not a Christian and was definitely not a Catholic.

Reichskonkordat
Pacelli, as Papal Secretary of State, at the signing of the Reichskonkordat, July 1933

The 1933 Reichskonkordat

Thus the idea that Pacelli was “pro-Nazi” or that the Catholic Church was somehow inclined toward the Nazis is absurd. Similarly, the idea that Hitler was a Catholic or favourable toward the Church is equally ridiculous. So why did both sides sign a treaty – a “Concordat” – in 1933?

Contrary to Hitchens’ portrayal of the 1933 Concordat as a friendly deal, concordats were generally negotiated between the Vatican and a sovereign state when relations had been distinctly unfriendly and where the Papacy was trying to secure a legal and diplomatic basis for protection of the Church in that state – particularly freedom of worship, the right to maintain Catholic schools and the maintenance of Catholic associations and youth groups. Around the same time as the Reichskonkordat, Pius XI was also (unsuccessfully) pursuing a concordat with the Soviet Union and for precisely the same reason: an attempt to get some legal basis for Catholic activity in the face of a highly hostile regime.

Pius XI, like his immediate predecessors, had been vigorous in the pursuit of concordats, since they saw them as a way of maintaining the Church in the face of a period of rapid political and social change. As already noted, Pacelli had been educated and trained in a Vatican diplomatic corps that saw concordats as their primary instruments of political influence. Pacelli had written his doctoral thesis on their application and his mentor Gasparri had been a major driver behind various concordats secured under Benedict XV. When Hitler came to power in 1933, he centralised government in a way that made concordats Pacelli had secured with various German states either void or ineffective and, fearing a new and much worse Kulturkampf under the openly anti-Catholic Nazis, Pius XI saw a concordat with the new Reich as the German Church’s best option for protection. Pacelli had returned to Rome in 1929 and taken up the role of Secretary of State and, given he had first hand knowledge of the Nazis and shared the Pope’s faith in concordats, it is not surprising that he was an enthusiastic supporter of this option.

Of course, Pacelli was not so naive as to think a concordat with the Third Reich would somehow make relations instantly harmonious. He was under no illusions that the Nazis would not violate the agreement and commented to the French ambassador to the Vatican, Francois Charles-Roux, “If we did not have [the Concordat], we would not have a foundation on which to base our protests”. He also commented wryly to a British diplomat that he was sure the Nazis “would probably not violate all of the articles of the concordat at the same time”.

On Hitler’s side, a concordat would eliminate a vocal anti-Nazi force in German politics. German bishops and other clergy had been open in their opposition to Nazi ideology and critical of its racism, its worship of the State and its violent tactics in the street. “Political priests” had been the bugbear of the Prussians during the Kulturkampf and they, along with Jewish bankers and Soviet agitators, were standard bogeymen in Nazi propaganda. An agreement with the Vatican that granted concessions on education and youth groups in return for silencing official anti-Nazi political statements from Catholic pulpits would be a boon for Hitler early in his consolidation of power.

Hitler was well aware that both Pius XI and his Secretary of State Pacelli were inclined toward a concordat, but wanted to avoid a drawn out negotiation process and to secure a quick diplomatic and political coup. So while he largely restrained the more vehement anti-Catholic factions in his party, he allowed enough repression of the German Church to put serious pressure on Rome. He sent the Catholic politician, former Centre Party deputy and now Vice-Chancellor Franz von Papen to negotiate the concordat on April 7, 1933, but in the three weeks prior to this the Nazis shut down nine Catholic publications, searched sixteen Catholic youth clubs and arrested 92 priests as a demonstration of what would follow if the Vatican did not come to an agreement.

British Ambassador to the Vatican, Ivone Kirkpatrick, later described how he saw the position of the Vatican at this point:

A pistol …. had been pointed at [the pope’s] head. The German Government had offered him concessions – concessions, it must be admitted, wider than any previous German Government would have agreed to – and he had to choose between an agreement on their lines and the virtual elimination of the Catholic Church in the Reich. Not only that, but he was given no more than one week to make up his mind. If the German Government violated the Concordat – and they were certain to do that – the Vatican would at least have a treaty on which to base a protest.”

(Dispatch to London, August 19, 1933)

The agreement was able to be negotiated fairly quickly largely because Von Papen brought with him the draft Concordat that Pacelli and others had previously tried, unsuccessfully, to settle with the former Weimar Republic. It was largely these terms that they presented as a “take it or leave it” proposition. Pacelli was also heavily influenced by key German prelates, especially Cardinals Michael von Faulhaber of Munich and Adolf Bertram of Breslau, who he had become close to in his years in Germany. Both not only warned of the real danger of something much worse than the Kulturkampf, but also feared, in the face of rising enthusiastic support for Hitler even among patriotic German Catholics, open conflict with the Nazis would force German Catholics to choose between their country and their church. They warned urgently against forcing that choice, fearing, in the climate of political fervour of the time, that it would lead to a major rupture in the German Church or even a large scale schism.

So far from being a cosy deal between friends, as it is sometimes portrayed by many atheist polemicists, the Reichskonkordat came about in the context of fear, hostility, suspicion and overt oppression. The legalism and diplomatic doctrines that dominated the Vatican of Pius XI and his Secretary of State meant they had a faith in the strength of concordats that proved highly naive. And Hitler played on both this faith and on their fear of what he could unleash against the German Church to manoeuvre the Vatican into a settlement that proved far more useful to him than to it.

Pacelli’s perception that the Nazis would violate the treaty proved absolutely correct, but his belief that a Concordat would provide a robust platform for effective protest did not. He did not foresee how quickly or how totally Hitler would consolidate his power or the strength and brazen ruthlessness of a modern totalitarian regime. In the first three years of the Reichskonkordat – 1933 to 1936 – the Vatican filed more than 50 protests against Nazi violation of the agreement including several against its treatment of minorities, including the Jews – the first of these was over the Nazis’ anti-Jewish boycotts of 1933. But these protests had little to no effect. The Nazis took increasingly overt suppressive action against politically active Catholics, critical priests and Catholic institutions in Germany and the Vatican’s protests were almost completely ignored. By 1938 the SS newspaper Das Schwarze Korps was arguing the whole Concordat was an irrelevant and redundant anachronism and should be abandoned, noting that it was the Church that had violated it via a stream of pastoral letters, sermons, pamphlets and condemnations of the Third Reich. In the end Hitler did not bother to revoke it, given that it was effectively a dead letter. By 1940 the American correspondent in Berlin, William Shirer, was referring to it in the past tense.

The claim that the Concordat was “the very first diplomatic accord undertaken by Hitler’s government” – made with great emphasis by Hitchens and repeated by other New Atheists – is factually incorrect. To begin with, Hitchens gets the date of the signing of the Concordat wrong: it was signed on July 20, not July 8 as he claims. And it was far from “the very first” treaty the Nazis signed with foreign powers or groups. Hitler had re-signed a trade and friendship pact with the Soviet Union on May 5 and the Four Powers Pact between Germany, France, Italy and Great Britain was signed on June 7. Indeed, a couple of weeks before the Concordat was ratified the Nazis signed the Haavara Agreement with the Zionist Federation of Germany – these agreements were clearly not signs of friendship, just consolidation of power. Once again, Hitchens does not let small things like facts and accuracy get in the way of his distorted polemics.

While the Concordat was clearly not some cosy deal, Hitchens depicts it as a vile pact with the Devil, claiming that in return for eliminating the Centre Party and silencing all Catholic political opposition to the Reich, Pius XI and Pacelli traded Church privileges for Hitler’s unhindered rise to total power. This is slightly closer to the truth, though still a massive oversimplification and largely wrong.

Zentrum

“Zentrum” and the Popes

The German Centre Party (Deutsche Zentrumspartei or simply Zentrum) had been a major force in German politics since the 1870s, when it had been the main opposition to Von Bismarck and his Kulturkampf against the Catholic Church. While it broadened its base in the early twentieth century, the Centre Party remained predominantly Catholic and in the turmoil of the early Weimar years it presented itself as the reasonable and moderate protector of stability in the face of increasing radicalism and violence from both the extreme left and radical right. As a result, it formed part of a succession of coalition governments throughout the years of the Weimar Republic and could be seen as holding something of a balance of power.

This also meant that as the Great Depression took hold in 1929 and spiralled into the German financial crisis of 1931, the Centre Party shared the blame for the sudden economic hardship in the eyes of many German voters. While the Centre Party had the protection of the Catholic Church’s rights as a central part of its policy platform, both the expansion of its voter base and political expediency meant it usually allied itself with the left-wing Social Democratic Party and German Democratic Party.

These alliances did not sit well with all. More right wing members of the Centre Party, led by Franz von Papen, disliked coalition with people they saw as socialists and little better than the Communist Party. Eugenio Pacelli and his successor as Papal Nuncio to Berlin, Cardinal Cesare Orsegnio, also regarded deals with the SPD and DPP with distaste. So when the German election of 1930 saw huge increases in votes and Reichstag seats for both the Communist Party and the Nazis, the Centre Party was riven by a debate about which side of the political spectrum it would swing toward. Despite Catholic apologists tending to pretend the future Pius XII was an implacable enemy of the Nazis in all circumstances, the Secretary of State Pacelli was clearly more inclined to some kind of deal between the Centre Party and the Nazis as Germany lurched from one political crisis to the next.

This is outlined in what is probably the closest thing we have so far to an even-handed and objective biography of Pius XII – Robert A. Ventresca’s Soldier of Christ: The Life of Pope Pius XII (2013). As Ventresca notes:

Prelates such as Pacelli and [Cardinal] Faulhaber …. were steeped in a political theology that expressed no particular preference for any one form of government. If anything, by virtue of their clerical training and personal histories, they were more likely to prefer traditional authoritarian systems over liberal democratic forms of governance

(p.72)

So while Pacelli and the German bishops continued to regard the Nazis as opponents and to openly condemn their ideology as “pagan”, inhumane, racist and statist, by 1930 there was some thought in the Vatican about how the Nazis, however distasteful, may be the lesser of two evils. This view was not shared, however, by Heinrich Brüning, the moderate Centre Party leader who became German Chancellor in 1930. Due to continuing political division in the Reichstag, Brüning governed not via a coalition but by presidential decree, but this unstable form of government relied on the ongoing support from his Centre Party and the leftist SPD.

Brüning knew that both Papal Nuncio Orsenigo and his Bavarian counterpart Cardinal Alberto Vassallo di Torregrossa were pushing Pacelli toward the idea of an accommodation with the Nazis. They argued this would require substantial concessions by Hitler, including renouncing much of his ideological platform, respecting the Weimar Constitution, recognising the Christian basis of any coalition government formed with the Centre Party and, most importantly, recognition and expansion of all agreements with the Vatican. Hitler was never likely to agree to any of this, but Brüning was alarmed enough by the prospect to travel to Rome in August 1931 to argue against it with Pacelli in a meeting he later recalled as “cordial but tense” (Ventresca, p. 74).

It was clear to Brüning that it was Pacelli’s focus on the idea of a concordat with Germany to protect the Church there that overrode all other considerations, even Pacelli’s intense dislike of Hitler and rejection of the Nazis’ ideology. Like many others in this period, Pacelli seems to have seen Hitler as someone that could be controlled and contained by the right combination of alliances and legal mechanisms and, like them, he was proven wrong.

In the end no Centre Party-Nazi coalition came about. Hindenburg won the 1932 presidential election against Hitler, but he moved substantially to the right to do so and Brüning resigned as Chancellor on May 30 as a result. The Centre Party’s most right wing leader, Franz von Papen, took his place and when the Party moderates withdrew their support, von Papen resigned from the Party and called yet another election in July 1932 and, after more chaos, another one again in November 1932. Elements in the Centre Party continued discussions of a coalition with the right, including the Nazis, but in the end manoeuvring by van Papen and the right-wing German National People’s Party (DNVP) leader Alfred Hugenberg saw Hitler elevated to the Chancellorship in January 1933.

The Centre Party campaigned hard against the Nazis in (yet another) election in March 1933 but the right wing coalition of the Nazis and the DNVP won 52% of the vote, breaking the Centre’s hold on the balance of power. Hitler introduced his Enabling Act of 1933 in bid to vest himself with legislative powers and rule without the Reichstag. The Centre Party split on the issue. The conservative Party chairman – the Catholic priest Ludwig Kaas – urged agreement with the Act, claiming Hitler had agreed to guarantee Catholic freedoms and to uphold established concordats with Rome (something Hitler was careful not to put in writing). Kaas carried the majority and Brüning, with great reluctance, ordered his faction to maintain party discipline and vote “yes”. The Enabling Act was passed on 23 March, 1933 and effectively established Hitler as a dictator.

The Enabling Act meant the fairly rapid demise of the Centre Party. By a combination of force, intimidation and false promises, Hitler either banned opposition parties or browbeat them into dissolving themselves for the national good. The Centre Party resisted the pressure for the longest but – with the Reichstag neutralised and the Nazis in firm control – it dissolved itself on July 5 1933.

Catholic apologists are as eager to distance this dissolution from the signing of the Reichskoncordat with the Vatican as polemicists like Hitchens are keen to claim one was the result of the other. Defenders of Pacelli like Ronald J. Rychlak emphasise that, far from engineering the demise of the Centre Party, Pacelli was surprised and disappointed at its sudden collapse. Rychlak says the Centre Party had “embarrassed the Holy See by supporting the Enabling Act” and notes “indeed some members had considered forming a coalition with the Nazis in 1932”, which ignores the fact that such a coalition had been under serious consideration with Pacelli’s cautious support as early as 1930. In Hitler, the War, and the Pope (2010), Rychlak quotes Pacelli’s reaction on reading of the dissolution in the newspaper:

“Too bad that it happened at this moment. Of course, the party couldn’t have held out much longer. But if it only had put off its dissolution at least until after the conclusion of the concordat, the simple fact of its existence would have been useful in the negotiations.”

(p. 72)

Again, for Pacelli and his fellow legalists, it was the Concordat that was important above all. Hitchens’ claim that “the Holy See instructed the Catholic Centre Party to disband” is nonsense – there was no such instruction. There is also no evidence that the dissolution of the Centre Party was a condition of the Concordat in its negotiation and, considering it happened before the negotiations had even concluded, the idea that it was a consequence of the Concordat also makes no sense. But the apologists are being disingenuous when they try to maintain the Concordat and the end of the Centre Party are somehow unrelated. Hitler’s vague promises of compromises with the Church and hints at a concordat convinced von Papen, who swung the Centre’s fateful vote. And it is no coincidence that von Papen left for Rome to begin the Concordat negotiations within days of the Enabling Act being passed. Hitchens’ account is a caricature of what happened, but the apologists are also distorting history by pretending the two things had nothing to do with each other. The real historical story, as usual, has more complexity than rigid polemics can contain.

Swastika and Cross

The Church and the Reich from 1933

As already noted, the reality of the Reichskonkordat did not live up to Pacelli’s already very low expectations. On 2 August 1934, President Hindenburg died and Hitler merged the powers of the President and Chancellor, making himself Führer und Reichskanzler and dictator of a one party state. Secure in power, the Nazis were happy to violate the Concordat and largely ignore the Vatican’s protests. Attacks on Catholics and Catholic institutions were initially sporadic, but increased in number and intensity as the 1930s went on. Senior clergy were generally spared, but outspoken priests and Catholic leaders were harassed, arrested, imprisoned and occasionally killed. The “Night of the Long Knives” purge which began on June 30 1934 not only saw Hitler remove rivals from his own party, but was also an opportunity to eliminate a range of enemies. The head of Catholic Action, Erich Klausener, von Papen’s former speech writer and advisor, Edgar Jung, and the national director of the Catholic Youth Sports Association, Adalbert Probst, were all shot by the SS in the purge. Tipped off by friends that his life was in danger, former Centre Party leader Heinrich Brüning fled Germany days earlier. Fritz Gerlich, the vehemently anti-Nazi editor of a Munich Catholic weekly newspaper, had already been sent to Dachau in 1933 and was also shot in the purge.

By the later 1930s the persecution of Catholic leaders in Nazi Germany became a common element in foreign press reports. Cardinal Faulhaber was shot at and Cardinal Innitzer and Bishop Sproll of Rottenburg had their homes broken into and ransacked. Outspoken priests were arrested, usually on charges of “immorality”, and sent to concentration camps in such numbers that by 1940 Dachau had a dedicated “Priests’ Block” that held 441 German Catholic priests, of whom 94 died there. Catholic schools were harassed for not teaching anti-Semitic ideology and hundreds were forcibly closed while Catholic presses were routinely shut down. In March 1941 Goebbels closed down all remaining Catholic newspapers, citing a wartime “paper shortage”.

Contrary to Hitchens’ claim, the Concordat did not “[order] Catholics to abstain from any political activity on any subject the regime chose to define as off-limits”. It had no force against Catholic laity at all and while it agreed to keep clergy out of political parties (which had all be suppressed or dissolved by the end of 1933 anyway) and forbade political preaching, what exactly was “political” was left undefined. This is why many priests continued to preach against the immorality of many aspects of Nazi ideology, especially its racism, militarism and its eugenic policies.

This was part of Pius XI and, later, Pius XII’s policy. They believed that the Concordat would give at least some level of protection to German Catholics so long as they limited their protests to matters of doctrine and morality rather than politics. But it was a fine line. As the extremism of the Nazis increased, the Vatican’s policy of formal neutrality and outward acceptance of the Nazi state as a political reality while trying to criticise it on moral grounds became increasingly difficult to sustain. Open conflict was inevitable.

This is the context in which we see bishops giving Nazi salutes and attending Nazi rallies in the photos above. Catholic prelates, especially in the early to mid 1930s, were instructed to accept the Nazi regime as the legitimate German government. So clergy did give the Nazi salute at official ceremonies, as did other dignitaries and public servants, whether they were Party members and supporters or not. The two bishops pictured with Goebbels above were Bishop Franz Rudolf Bornewasser of Trier and Bishop Ludwig Sebastian of Speyer. Far from being Nazi supporters, both were outspoken critics of the regime. Bishop Bornewasser condemned Nazi policies both publicly and in private protests to Hitler himself and accounts of the physical attacks on him by Nazi thugs were later used as evidence in the Nuremberg Trials. Bishop Sebastian’s defence of clergy arrested by the Nazis prompted attacks on him in the Nazi press, which in turn provoked such outrage from the Catholic population of Speyer that the local Nazi Gauleiter, Joseph Bürckel, (also seen in the photo with Goebbels) ordered a Nazi rally in the city for the day of a planned mass protest by Catholics. He bussed in thousands of Nazi Party members and stormtroopers to take over the streets and prevent any demonstration in support of the bishop. Anti-Catholic polemicists who use the photo of the two bishops to illustrate any supposed Catholic support of the Nazis are, as usual, twisting history.

Of course, there were some Catholic clergy and many more Catholic laity who did support the Nazis. The end of the political chaos and economic collapse of the early 1930s, the seemingly miraculous revival of the German economy, the annexation of formerly lost territory and, eventually, the victories in the period from 1939-41 meant many German Catholics were swept up in the nationalist fervour of the earlier years of Hitler’s regime. But most Catholics remained either wary of the Nazis or openly opposed to them. And the German Resistance, which was active even in the heady early years of the regime, had a Catholic backbone.

There were some enthusiastic pro-Nazi clergy, but their numbers were tiny. Kevin P. Spicer’s analysis in his book Hitler’s Priests: Catholic Clergy and National Socialism concludes that of around 42,000 priests in Germany and Austria, only 138 or 0.5% were Nazis. Others, including some leading prelates, were not supporters but were sufficiently nationalist to find the policy of outward political neutrality more comfortable than most. Cardinal Adolf Bertram, who had influenced the Vatican’s positions on the Concordat and the Centre Party, was clearly one of these. It was he who ordered the annual birthday good wishes to Hitler that so outraged Hitchens. What Hitchens does not bother to note is that it had also outraged many of Bertram’s fellow senior clergy at the time. Bishop Konrad von Preysing was so vehemently opposed to the gesture that he wrote angrily to Bertram about the “fundamental divergence of our views over the church-political situation”, and had to be talked out of resigning his see by the Pope. But the Vatican could not avoid a public confrontation between Bertram and von Preysing at the German Catholic Bishops Conference the following year, where von Preysing attacked Bertram’s approach so vehemently in his opening address that Bertram dissolved the Conference to prevent any further public conflict. Hitchens, of course, holds up Bertram’s actions and says nothing about von Preysing, who went on to openly attack the Nazis and work covertly with the German Resistance. Polemics usually consist of telling only part of the story – objective historical analysis does not work like that.

This is why much of the supposed “evidence” of church support for the Nazis is patent misrepresentation. For example, German soldiers did indeed have the motto “Gott Mit Uns” (God With Us) on their belt buckles. But they had carried this motto for about 60 years before the Nazis ever existed. It had been a heraldic motto in Prussia for centuries and so became the motto of the unified Germany’s Imperial standard in 1871 and had been inscribed on German helmets in the First World War. Nazi belt buckles, on the other hand, had no religious slogans. Those of the Waffen SS carried their motto “Meine Ehre heißt Treue” (My Honour is Loyalty) while those of the Hitler Youth read “Blut und Ehre” (Blood and Honour). And the photo of Pius XII supposedly being honoured by Nazi guards, which was used on the covers of most editions of Cornwell’s Hitler’s Pope, was actually taken in 1927 when the then Papal Nuncio Pacelli was visiting President von Hindenburg. The “Nazi guards” are actually soldiers of the democratic Weimar Republic, though the covers of Cornwell’s book artfully retouch the photo to highlight Pacelli and blur the soldiers to make it easier to mistake them for SS guards. The distortion here is quite literal.

Pius XI

Mit brennender Sorge

By 1937 the violations of the Concordat, the ongoing persecution of German Catholics and the increasingly repressive and violent expression of Nazi ideology in the Third Reich meant Pius XI felt a clear statement against Nazism needed to be made. He and Pacelli met with leading German prelates on 21 December 1936 and the encyclical the Pope envisaged was drafted over five days in January 1937 by Pacelli and the more vigorously anti-Nazi Cardinal Faulhaber and Bishop Preysing, but also the more accommodationist Cardinal Bertram. With the ailing Pope too ill to be closely involved, the encyclical was very much Pacelli’s document: Pius XI noted after the encyclical was issued that “Not one line leaves this office that [Pacelli] does not recognise”. Faulhaber had written the first draft of the document, but it was Pacelli who added what Robert A. Ventresca describes as its “most forceful and consequential paragraph” (p. 144):

“Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, a particular form of State, or the repositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the worldly community… whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God.”

The encyclical was entitled Mit brennender Sorge (“With burning concern”) and was pointedly issued in German rather than the more usual Latin. In a remarkable operation, it was smuggled into Germany and 300,000 copies were secretly printed or made by hand using typewriters. It was then read from pulpits all over Germany on Palm Sunday to large Easter congregations to maximise its impact.

The Nazis were furious. All copies of the encyclical that could be found were seized and the presses that printed it were shut down. Hitler ordered another round up of “political priests” and a crackdown on “immorality” in Catholic institutions and hundreds were sent to concentration camps. While part of the encyclical had condemned oppression of Catholics and the violations of the Concordat, it was the broader condemnation of the Nazi “myth of race and blood” and the racism of Nazi ideology that caused Hitler’s fury at the encyclical and earned praise from other world powers who were increasingly uneasy at the rise of Nazi Germany.

Catholic apologists tend to hold up Mit brennender Sorge as the boldest and most unequivocal statement possible and, correctly, note Pacelli’s key role in its drafting and issue. Detractors point out it did not explicitly name Hitler or Nazism, couched its criticisms in general terms and maintains the anti-Semitic language of deicide in one reference (“Jesus received his human nature from a people who crucified him”). The latter reflected the Catholic doctrine of the time – the concept of collective Jewish guilt for the death of Jesus was already being vigorously argued against but would not be officially overturned until 1965. But the lack of an explicit mention of Nazism and Hitler contrasts with the anti-Communist encyclical, Divini Redemptoris, which was issued just nine days after Mit brennender Sorge. That letter openly condemned “the violent, deceptive tactics of bolshevistic and atheistic Communism”. Of course, there was no doubt in anyone’s mind who and what Mit brennender Sorge was condemning – the Nazis in particular got the point – but it did contain guarded language and careful assurances that the Church, for example, did not intend to prevent young Germans from establishing “a true ethnical community in a noble love of freedom and loyalty to their country”. Here we can see the hand of Pacelli, attempting to tread the fine diplomatic line between condemnation and a desire to temper Nazi excesses. “Is this,” Ventresca asks, “a pointed assault on the Nazi’s totalitarian aim to control every aspect of society” or “the expression of a naive belief that Nazism might yet be tamed?” (p. 117). It could be argued to be something of both.

Pacelli did not give any ground in his April 1937 response to a formal Nazi complaint about the encyclical issued by the German ambassador to the Vatican, Diego von Bergen. He denied the claim the encyclical was a political document and maintained it was purely doctrinal – the lack of explicit references to the regime was largely so he could make this argument. But when the Kristallnacht pogrom ushered in yet more persecution of Jews in Germany in November 1938, Pacelli resisted calls such as those by Cardinal Arthur Hinsley for a statement of condemnation by the increasingly ill Pius XI. Three prominent cardinals, Italian, French and Belgian, were instructed to issue strong condemnations of Nazi racial theory, with Cardinal Pierre Verdier of Paris referring to “thousands of people” who recently “were tracked down like wild beasts [and] stripped of their possessions” all in the name of “racial rights”. But Pacelli’s response was to deliver a sermon in Rome’s Church of San Giacomo to commemorate the 200th anniversary of the canonisation of Saint Vincent de Paul in which he likened the travails of the saint to the lamentations of the exiled Israelites in Babylon. Noting this rather oblique and rarefied reaction, Ventresca notes:

As a spiritual exercise this had much to recommend it. But it was a decidedly tepid political response to the escalating excesses of the Hitler state …. Pacelli was still struggling, seemingly in vain, to find an effective political response to increasing Nazi radicalism.

(p. 126)

But with the death of Pius XI on February 10, 1939, Pacelli’s need to find a political response to Hitler became more pressing still.

The New Pope and the Reich

Pacelli was elected pope on March 2 1939 and took his predecessor’s name as Pius XII. He had been the preferred candidate for most western powers, who saw him as the best person to help defend democracy in Europe. The Nazis generally regarded him with hostility, seeing him as instrumental in the “anti-German trend” in diplomatic relations with the Reich. So, not surprisingly, his election was not greeted with joy by the Nazi press or the German newspapers generally, with the Berlin Morgenpost declaring “[He] has always been opposed to Nazism and practically determined the policies of the Vatican under his predecessor”.

Pius XII soon embarked on a policy that he felt best suited the interests of the Catholic Church in Germany and the Church generally – outward neutrality, avoidance of purely “political” issues and a focus on defending the rights of the German Church and speaking out on matters of doctrine and morals only. The letter he sent Hitler after his accession that so outraged Hitchens was not, in fact, an “evil and fatuous message” as Hitchens characterises it. It used very similar language to the letters he sent to other world leaders at the same time. Read in the context of the new pope’s almost two decades of observation of and engagement with the Nazis (and shorn of the exclamation marks added by Cornwell and retained for rhetorical effect by Hitchens), it is quite clearly a diplomatically-coded warning that the previous policies would be retained, with warm references to “the German people“, but none at all for the Hitler regime. Hitler got the point – he was the only world leader who received a letter from the new pope and did not reply. Germany was also the only nation to not send a representative to the new pope’s coronation.

Many leading Catholic prelates and intellectuals were not happy with the pope’s determined policy of remaining above politics, especially when confronted with the Italian Fascist invasion of Albania in April 1939 and the clear intentions of Germany toward Poland as the year went on. But Pius resisted pressure to take a side in the political crises of that year, arguing in his first address to the College of Cardinals on June 2 that the Church needed to warn of the “incalculable material, spiritual and moral consequences” of war, but could only do so without becoming entangled in disputes among states. He had cardinals and nuncios work behind the scenes to urge the relevant parties to avoid a war and, on August 24, made a pastoral appeal for peace, but he steadfastly refused to make any partisan statement or condemnation of particular sides as aggressors. The Second World War broke out a week later with the German invasion of Poland.

The patterns of Pius’ policy did not change in the first years of the war. Statements were made and condemnations of war in general and violent excesses and persecutions of civilians in particular were issued, but always couched in the lofty language of moral condemnation and spiritual guidance, with no explicit references to who the perpetrators were. Given that the perpetrators were, in Poland, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, there was no doubt who the condemnations were aimed at, but diplomacy and neutrality remained paramount. So Pius’ first encyclical, Summi Pontificalis (October 20, 1939) seemed to many to be a ringing condemnation of the Nazis, including the point that in the Church “there is neither Gentile nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision” – a quotation of Colossians 3:11 and a clear reference to Nazi racial policy and the persecution of Polish Jews that was already underway. But the reserved and intellectual Pius clearly thought these careful words had far more unequivocal impact than they did. That said, the Nazis were predictably outraged at the encyclical, while the British and French air forces dropped 88,000 copies of it, translated into German, over western Germany.

As the war raged and reports of Nazi atrocities became more numerous and alarming, it was increasingly difficult for Pius to maintain a clear line between “moral condemnation” and “political statement”. By December 1942 the Vatican’s well-informed intelligence networks were making it clear that the Nazis were engaging in wholesale and increasingly systematic murder of Jews in the Reich. An Italian Army chaplain, Father Pirro Scavissi, travelled with the Axis forces in occupied central Europe and relayed what he witnessed directly to the pope. He also met with Pius on two occasions while on leave in Rome and reported how the pope “cried like a child and prayed like a saint” when the Nazi atrocities against Jews and others in Poland were described to him in detail. Not surprisingly, vehement critics of the policy of outward, lofty neutrality, such as Bishop von Preysing, pressed for a more overt condemnation of the Nazis.

This came in the pope’s Christmas Address of 1942, delivered via Vatican Radio and widely disseminated in written form throughout occupied Europe. Most of the 45 minute address was a general dissertation on human rights, but it made a clear condemnation of totalitarianism:

[T]here are those various theories which, differing among themselves, and deriving from opposite ideologies, agree in considering the State, or a group which represents it, as an absolute and supreme entity, exempt from control and from criticism even when its theoretical and practical postulates result in and offend by, their open denial of essential tenets of the human Christian conscience.

And at its end Pius addressed his hopes for a renewal of fundamental principles in a post-war world and stated:

Mankind owes [this] to the hundreds of thousands of persons who, without any fault on their part, sometimes only because of their nationality or race, have been consigned to death or to a slow decline.

As oblique as this is, it was (for Pius) a highly pointed reference to Nazi racial theory and the atrocities it was driving. And it was quickly perceived as such. The Nazis certainly got the message. The central office of Himmler’s RHSA security arm did not mince words:

The Pope has repudiated the National-Socialist New European Order …. He is virtually accusing the German people of injustice toward the Jews and makes himself the mouthpiece of the Jewish war criminals.

The speech was covered widely in the press around the world and commented on favourably, with the New York Times editorial for December 25 1942 declaring the pope a “lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent”. Later Pius commented to Harold Tittmann, the US ambassador to the Vatican, that, in the words of a British diplomat’s report, “he considered his recent broadcast to be clear and comprehensive in its condemnation of the heartrending treatment of Poles, Jews, hostages etc. And to have satisfied all recent demands that he should speak out.”

Others were less satisfied. Bishop von Preysing, yet again, did not think the reference to the victimisation of the Jews was specific enough. Harold Tittmann also pressed the pope to go further, but he did note to his government that “the reference to the persecution of the Jews and mass deportations is unmistakable”. The problem for the Americans and the other Allies was that Pius’ typically abstract approach made it hard for them to give his message the propaganda spin they wanted – which was, at least in part, precisely its intention. This was not simply a continuation of the policy of outward neutrality and an appearance of staying above “politics” – it was also a recognition of a deeply political reality. As Pius noted to Tittmann, a more explicit reference to precisely which totalitarian regimes he was condemning and a more detailed exposition of their atrocities would require an equal condemnation of the Soviet Union and, the pope observed carefully, this “might not be wholly pleasing to the Allies”.

So the Christmas Address of 1942 remained the most explicit and pointed condemnation of the Nazis that Pius made in public, even though his many and quite vehement private condemnations are well documented. The apologists highlight the latter, while the detractors wave them away and condemn Pius XII for his qualified and carefully-worded public pronouncements. But the story that has been, until recently, largely ignored is what the pope was doing behind the scenes and under the cover of his carefully diplomatic facade.

Church of Spies

The Pope’s “Secret War”

New Atheist luminary Sam Harris is, as I have detailed before, spectacularly bad at history. Like many of the scientists who make up the ranks of the leading New Atheist polemicists, he seems to think you “do” history by finding support for what you want to think in a book and then presenting what that book says. So when he turned to the relationship between the Catholic Church and the Nazis in his The End of Faith (2004), he found condemnation of the Church in Daniel Goldhagen’s controversial and much-criticised book Hitler’s Willing Executioners (1996) and so, in his usual lazy fashion, did not bother to look much further.

But in 2015 Harris actually managed to read another book on the subject and, I suppose to his credit, he substantially changed his mind. The book was Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler by Mark Riebling, a writer who specialises in the history of espionage. Harris was so impressed with Riebling’s book that he interviewed him on his blog in a piece entitled “Re-thinking ‘Hitler’s Pope’“. In the interview Harris did all he could to still criticise and condemn Pius XII and the Catholic Church as much as possible, but he was forced to admit “I’m getting the uncomfortable feeling that I’ve been too hard on the Vatican for its conduct during the war.”

Riebling’s excellent book highlights and details an element of Pius XII and the Catholic Church’s role in the Second World War which is usually only mentioned in passing or relegated to footnotes: namely, the persistent covert assistance given to the Allies and to the German Resistance to actively work toward the fall of the Third Reich and the overthrow or, if possible, assassination of Adolf Hitler.

That Pius was inclined to assist the Allies covertly has been noted many times in the past, though it is rarely emphasised and is usually ignored or dismissed by his detractors. As Riebling details, the Vatican had what was effectively the oldest intelligence network in Europe – thousands of clergy with lines of covert communication back to Rome that had been in operation for centuries. It was via this network and its connections to disaffected anti-Nazi officers in the Wehrmacht and, in particular, the Abwehr – the German Army’s espionage arm – that Pius learned of the Nazis’ intention to invade Holland, Luxembourg and Belgium in May 1940. Pius ordered that a coded radio warning be sent to the nuncios in Belgium and Holland so they could warn the Allies. The warning was passed on to London a week before the invasion, but Western forces failed to capitalise on the information. Similarly, the Vatican’s German links allowed Ludwig Kaas – the former Centre Party politician who had negotiated the Reichskonkordat and was now in exile in the Vatican – to warn the Allies of the impending invasion of Norway in April 1940. Again, the Allies did not respond or act on the warning.

But Pius’ covert actions against the Nazis went much further. As Riebling details, a clique of anti-Nazi officers within the Abwehr, led by the intelligence unit’s chief Admiral Wilhelm Canaris and his chief of staff Hans Oster, began to plot against Hitler soon after the invasion of Poland in 1939. Canaris needed a way of communicating with the Allies to gain assistance and to win concessions for Germany once the Nazis were overthrown. The plotters decided to use the Vatican as their go-between and enlisted a Catholic Abwehr reservist, Josef Müller, as their key conduit to Rome. Müller – a large, gregarious, beer-drinking, charmer nicknamed “Ochsensepp” (Joey the Ox) – emerges as the main hero of Riebling’s story. He was a man who in 1934 faced down an SS interrogation led by Himmler himself and was released because the SS leader admired his courage, faith and principles. Müller already knew Pius from his time as Nuncio in Munich and used a variety of covers to relay messages between the Resistance leaders and the Vatican, liaising directly with the pope’s private secretary, Robert Leiber. Leiber and Kaas then passed on relevant intelligence to the British Government via their ambassador to the Holy See, Francis d’Arcy Osborne.

But the pope’s involvement with the Resistance went much further than acting as a conduit. Via Müller and a network of German Jesuits, Pius was directly involved in no less than three plots to kill Hitler. The first faded out in 1939-40 when the German officers involved lost their nerve. The second failed when explosives in Hitler’s plane failed to go off in 1943. And the third was the von Stauffenberg plot, where a bomb wounded Hitler but failed to kill him in 1944. But as early as 1939 Pius had made the decision not only to help the Resistance overthrow the Nazis, but also decided that Hitler met the theological justifications for actual tyrannicide – he decided to assist the German Resistance even if they acted to assassinate Hitler. Some of his aides, including his secretary and adviser Robert Leiber, were shocked but Leiber’s own notes from the time record that when asked what kind of government the German plotters should work toward, Pius answered emphatically “Any government without Hitler”. So much for “Hitler’s Pope”.

The Lessons of History

It should be clear by now that virtually every element of Hitchens’ characterisation of relations between Pius XII and the Nazis is factually wrong or a grotesque misrepresentation of history. When exposed to even the slightest criticial analysis, his claim that Pius was “pro-Nazi” is utterly absurd. The Reichskonkordat was not “very first diplomatic accord undertaken by Hitler’s government”. It was not some friendly deal and it did not secure protection for the Catholic Church in Germany. It did not order the silence of German Catholics. And there was no papal instruction for the Centre Party to dissolve. Every point Hitchens makes is wrong.

As usual, the real history is complex, but it bears almost no resemblance to the bizarre caricature found in the works of leading New Atheists or the hysterical ranting of many online atheist polemics. Overall, despite a few collaborators and enthusiasts, the Catholic Church’s response to the Nazis was one of opposition, up to and including active or covert resistance.

The historical “Pius Wars” are likely to continue, with both his defenders and detractors likely to find grist for their respective mills in the documents from his wartime pontificate that the Vatican has recently announced it will release. Apologists overstate his public condemnation of and opposition to the Nazi regime, but overall their case is stronger than that of the detractors, who are guilty of selective evidence, speculation and misrepresentation. John Cornwell, whose publication of Hitler’s Pope in 1999 brought the criticism of Pius XII more fully into the public arena and who was effectively the key source of Hitchens’ distorted polemics, has since backtracked on many of his arguments.

Debate will certainly continue on whether Pius’ policy of outward neutrality while engaging in covert action was the best course. Certainly many of the German Jesuits who worked against the Nazis did not feel so, given they were later instrumental in shaping the bolder and more outspoken policies seen in the papacy of John XXIII and his successors, which formed the modern Papacy of today; one that is far more vocal on matters that Pius would have considered too “political”. As Riebling has pointed out in interviews, Eugenio Pacelli was born on the eve of Custer’s last stand and died on the eve of the launch of Sputnik. He was a man who bridged two very different worlds.

Debate also continues on the other key issue of Pius XII’s record – his response (or lack thereof) to the persecution of the Jews and to the Holocaust. But while Pius was not an outspoken saint who stood alone against tyranny in the dark days of World War Two, as Catholic apologists would have us believe, the idea that he was some kind of quisling is absurd. And the claim that he was “pro-Nazi” or “Hitler’s Pope” is total and complete garbage.

Further Reading

Gerard Noel, Pius XII: The Hound of Hitler (Continuum, 2008)

Mark Riebling, Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler (Basic Books, 2015)

Ronald J. Rychlak, Hitler, the War, and the Pope (Genesis Press, 2000)

Klaus Scholder, A Requiem for Hitler and Other New Perspectives on the German Church Struggle (Trinity Press, 1989)

Robert A. Ventresca, Soldier of Christ: The Life of Pope Pius XII (Harvard, 2013)

206 thoughts on “The Great Myths 7: “Hitler’s Pope”?

  1. It saddens me that you needed to write this article, because little of the content is new to me and I assumed that it overall was widely known. Of course I’ve met “the nazipope” argument, but I never got the point.
    1. For an atheist who wants to speak ill of the RCC there are far better examples than Pius XII, especially in Ustasha-Croatia. Also priest Jozef Tiso, president of Slovakia during WW-2 could serve. In my native country, The Netherlands, there were also examples of catholic fascists.
    2. The honest atheist recognizes that for every catholic fascist you can find a catholic resistance fighter. Examples are priest Titus Brandsma and Cardinal De Jong.

    I understand the fun of bashing devout catholics, but really, why run the risk of being mocked for ignorance and stupidity? When with a little care you can pick much more suitable facts? All you need is Wikipedia, lemma Ustasha and the antitheist is in anticatholic paradise.

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    1. All true, though I suppose the trope of “Hitler’s Pope” serves their ideological purposes better than any old fascist Catholic priest because then they can pretend that the whole hierarchy is implicated from the very top.

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  2. Great article. Will you write one on the Stalinists, and how their murderous ideology supposedly had nothing to do with atheism? (a bit like how New Atheists attack Muslims for saying terrorism has nothing to do with Islam)

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  3. A couple of observations on this excellent piece:

    1) I think the fact that the main European Allied power during World War II was the genocidal Soviet Union deserves more than a passing observation. A principled anti-Hitlerian like Pius XII could not possibly have called out the Nazis publicly by name and given his explicit blessing to the Allied cause tout court without also calling out by name the Soviet government, which was persecuting several ethnic and religious minorities, not least the pope’s own Catholic flock. The reason most nu-atheists disregard this factor is that most of them are leftists and view the Soviet Union sympathetically.

    2) I don’t think the claim that Hitler’s regime was atheistic is that far off the mark. Hitler’s and the Nazis’ theism, such as it was, seems to have been something vaguely pantheistic, and pantheism is arguably atheistic. If by “God” we mean “that which is metaphysically ultimate,” then pantheism (as Dawkins himself as observed with uncharacteristic insight) really is just sexed-up atheism, since both the pantheist and the atheist identify metaphysical ultimacy with the cosmos.

    3) Christians have literally always considered it to be a God-given duty to pray for the civil leaders, even their persecutors, and to wish every blessing upon them, it being understood that such blessings would include the conversion of those men if they are evil. Nu-atheists tend to be historical and cultural illiterates, so they read such expressions of prayer for Hitler as endorsements of his political platform, when in fact they are nothing of the sort. Catholics living under despotic and persecutory regimes since apostolic times have always prayed, and to this very day continue to pray, for their political leaders and to extent to them their hope of divine blessing. Even a passing acquaintance with Christian theology would tip the nu-atheist off to this. Their ignorance of this is somewhat akin to their taking Mother Teresa’s eminently commonplace observations about the redemptive potential of suffering and claiming this amounted to a desire by her to inflict unwanted suffering on others, or the recent New York Times reporter thinking a priest’s reference to having recovered “the Body of Christ” from the Notre Dame fire referred to his rescue of a statue of Jesus.

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    1. “I think the fact that the main European Allied power during World War II was the genocidal Soviet Union deserves more than a passing observation.”

      There are lots of things I mentioned which I would like to have elaborated on, but this is a large topic and it was extremely difficult to keep it down to around 10-12,000 words. I think I made the point about how one of the great powers that was doing most of the heavy fighting was about as bad as the Nazis and how this constrained the Pope quite clearly enough.

      “The reason most nu-atheists disregard this factor is that most of them are leftists and view the Soviet Union sympathetically.”

      That is nonsense. There are plenty of politically conservative atheists and just because you are a “leftist” does NOT mean you “view the Soviet Union sympathetically”. I am very much a left wing progressive in my political orientation and I and everyone like me I know regard the Soviet Union much the way we regard Nazi Germany – as a system of murderous totalitarianism. To say “leftists view the Soviet Union sympathetically” is about as absurd as someone saying “conservatives admire Nazi Germany”. Please don’t come here and say such totally silly things.

      “I don’t think the claim that Hitler’s regime was atheistic is that far off the mark. Hitler’s and the Nazis’ theism, such as it was, seems to have been something vaguely pantheistic”

      I make no claim about whether his regime was atheistic or theistic, mainly because there was no single position on the question of God required by Nazi ideology. But Hitler was clearly a theist. And no, he was not a pantheist. The Nazis generally were not well disposed to atheism and while their own individual beliefs ranged from traditional Christianity to neo-paganism, they tended to be overall, like Hitler, theists.

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      1. We’re fooling ourselves if we don’t acknowledge that the vast majority of atheists are committed leftists, and that the mainstream political Left has a very long history of turning a blind eye to Soviet (indeed, all socialist) atrocities, or at the very least minimizing them. The mainstream political Left did it with Stalin, they did it with Mao, they did it with Castro, they did it with the Calles regime in Mexico, with Chavez in Venezuela, with the republicans of Civil War Spain, etc. Indeed, many of them continue to do so with those regimes, just as they do to to every totalitarian socialist regime. The mainstream Left is roughly divided 50/50 on this: Half will never admit these were, on balance, bad regimes; while the other half, having spent several years (even decades) lauding them, will later condemn them and claim they “weren’t real socialism.”

        By contrast, there have never been an appreciable number of mainstream conservatives who’ve lauded the Nazis. No major filmmaker has made a popular, mainstream movie depicting Communist atrocities a la Schindler’s List. Every government-“educated” schoolchild knows Hitler was Pure Evil (TM), but hardly any of them believe the same of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, etc. (the South Floridian children of Cuban exiles excepted).

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        1. “We’re fooling ourselves if we don’t acknowledge that the vast majority of atheists are committed leftists”

          For some years now there has been a vicious schism within the New Atheist “movement” between those on the political left and those who are on the libertarian or conservative right. So you need to stop generalising and seeing all of your opponents through a single lens. You are simply wrong. Stephen leDrew has even written a whole book on the political ruptures in the New Atheist movement, with an detailed chapter entitled “The Atheist Right” – see The Evolution of Atheism: The Politics of a Modern Movement (Oxford, 2015). Atheists agree on one thing – they have no belief in any God or gods. I can assure you, from long experience, that we disagree on pretty much everything else, including politics.

          “the mainstream political Left has a very long history of turning a blind eye to Soviet (indeed, all socialist) atrocities, or at the very least minimizing them. “

          Again, that is a gross generalisation. Some on the left have done so. Others – most of us actually – have condemned them for it.

          “he mainstream Left is roughly divided 50/50 on this: Half will never admit these were, on balance, bad regimes; while the other half, having spent several years (even decades) lauding them, will later condemn them and claim they “weren’t real socialism.””

          That is garbage. I’ve been on the left of politics all my life and we have always condemned totalitarian regimes and rejected the Trotskyite fringe who indulged in the apologism you refer to. You seem to have a weird, conservative outsiders caricatured view of “the left”.

          “No major filmmaker has made a popular, mainstream movie depicting Communist atrocities”

          Really? You mean like The Way Back? Or One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich? Or Archangel? Hell, The Death of Stalin was nominated for and won a string of award and critical acclaim just two years ago. What the hell are you talking about?

          Stop posting this crap here. If you keep repeating these ultra-conservative distortions you will go straight to the spam file. You’ve been warned.

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          1. I didn’t say that all atheists were leftists, just that the overwhelming, vast majority of them are, and always have been. That’s not really disputable.

            The films you mentioned, whatever their artistic merits, are obscure projects that almost no one’s ever seen or heard of. They’re not routinely shown to government schoolchildren the way Schindler’s List and Holocaust-themed movies are. Most people have no idea of the extent of socialist genocide. Our landscapes in the West are not dotted with Gulag Memorial Museums, schools do not regularly schedule field trips to the same, etc. Socialist atrocities are barely a blip on anyone’s radar in Hollywood, the mainstream media, or academia. The mainstream left simply isn’t interested in them. The fact that exceptions to this exist does not negate the rule.

            Are you really going to insult my intelligence and that of all your other readers by making me name-drop all the mainstream leftists of yesteryear and today who speak warmly and positively of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Chavez, the Viet Cong, Plutarco Calles, the Spanish republicans, etc.? Give me a freaking break.

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          2. “I didn’t say that all atheists were leftists, just that the overwhelming, vast majority of them are”

            A baseless claim that any exposure to actual atheists would show to be wrong.

            “The films you mentioned, whatever their artistic merits, are obscure projects that almost no one’s ever seen or heard of.”

            The Death of Stalin was nominated for a BAFTA and was nominated for or won 28 other awards. And many were surprised it didn’t get at least nominated for an Oscar. You have a strange definition of “obscure”.

            “They’re not routinely shown to government schoolchildren the way Schindler’s List and Holocaust-themed movies are. “

            The Holocaust gets more attention in movies because (i) it was perpetrated by a western country and so is more of a pertinent moral lesson on totalitarianism for westerners, (ii) it was uniquely horrifying because of the industrialisation of its mass murder and (iii) because many of those who escaped it, its survivors and their descendants went to the US and became part of the movie industry. It’s not because of any fantasy “leftist” affection for the Soviet Union.

            ” Our landscapes in the West are not dotted with Gulag Memorial Museums, schools do not regularly schedule field trips to the same, etc”

            Then you need to think more carefully about why that is. Do “leftists” have some kind of iron control over who gets to open museums and which museums school trips tour? Do you have evidence of “leftists” stopping Russian emigres from opening museums about the Soviet oppression? Or schools shunning any such museums? There are elements in the Holocaust that make it unique and quite different to the Soviet oppression and mass murder. Those elements explain the different response to and memorialisation of the two forms of totalitarian genocide. Not your weird fantasies about “leftists”.

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        2. Oh yes Bonshika Jackson. I really think that those places with large percentages of atheists like Eastern Germany, the Czech republic, Japan, Estonia, New Zealand, Belarus, Netherlands etc are (despite Belarus among them not being amongst the most free-market economies) awash with “committed leftists” who “turn a blind eye to Soviet (indeed, all socialist) atrocities” (en sarc).

          I mean in the case of Eastern Germany, Estonia and the Czech republic; they only were amongst the sufferers of those said Soviet atrocities. If anything; they’re struggling to not be reminded of them all the time.

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          1. Bonshika Jackson is parroting lines from the American Christian Right’s playbook. And American Christian conservatives tend not to have a very wide view of the world or any detailed understanding of places beyond the “red states” in the U.S. of A.

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          2. I’ve lived in the US my whole life, never lived in South Florida, and I was taught about communist atrocities in school. Ditto for my niece currently attending school in New York City, a very left wing region by American standards. Any American history class is going to eventually touch on the cold war and explain why America led the coalition against the Bolsheviks. It’s not a topic avoided outside of Cuban expat circles in South Florida.

            I’m also pretty sure the anarchists fighting for the Spanish Republic would be shocked to find out that they’re actually communists. Ditto for social democrats and democratic socialists, if one puts them under the umbrella of ‘socialism.’

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          3. Let’s just take a look at the Anglosphere.

            United States: Sixty-nine percent of atheists are or lean Democrat, compared to the mere fifteen percent of them who are or lean Republican. This is consistent with the “religiously unaffiliated” who overwhelmingly vote Democrat in every single U.S. presidential and midterm congressional election. (Yes, I’m well aware that the “religiously unaffiliated” are not limited to atheists.):

            https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-family/atheist/party-affiliation/

            https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/07/how-religious-groups-voted-in-the-midterm-elections/

            Likewise, in the UK, forty-seven percent of the “nones” voted Labour in the 2017 election, versus thirty-percent for the Tories: http://www.brin.ac.uk/religious-affiliation-and-party-choice-at-the-2017-general-election/

            The same holds true for Canada: https://www.secularismandnonreligion.org/articles/10.5334/snr.112/#political-affiliations

            I challenge anyone to produce any statistics that show atheists leaning right-ward in any Western country — hell, any of them splitting 50-50 in that respect. It simply doesn’t happen. Leftism is the political expression of atheism, and has been ever since the French Revolution. Most left-wingers may not be atheists, but left-wing theists are more atheistic than their right-wing counterparts, and always have been, because a major premise of left-wing politics has always been that atheism out to be assumed in the political arena, i.e., that laws and public policies should be formulated “etsi Deus non daretur,” i.e., as if God does not exist.

            I’m not making this up, and any intellectually honest person who associates with atheists knows this.

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          4. “United States: Sixty-nine percent of atheists are or lean Democrat …. Likewise, in the UK, forty-seven percent of the “nones” voted Labour …. The same holds true for Canada”

            Your results only show a reasonable majority in the US, which is unsurprising given the politics and religious demographics there. You couldn’t even get to 50% in the UK, which is far more typical of western countries in its politcal and religious demographic make up, given that both politics and religion in the US are fucking weird compared to the rest of the civilised world (hint: they have a fat, vulgar, lying, cheating, narcissistic womaniser as their President and the Christian Right somehow adores him). And your Canadian evidence is pathetic – a vague survey taken from a tiny handful of subjects in two provinces.

            But even if we accepted the statistics from the US as the norm for atheists generally (and we definitely can’t), I’m afraid 69% does equal “a vast majority”. Not even close. 95% would be “a vast majority”. Perhaps 90%. But 69%? That’s a majority, but not a “vast” one.

            All that aside – the claim you made that I rejected was “The reason most nu-atheists disregard this factor is that most of them are leftists and view the Soviet Union sympathetically.” The key problem there was not so much your weird fantasy that the “vast majority” of politically diverse ranks of atheists are “leftists”, but the ridiculous claim that “leftists” somehow “view the Soviet Union sympathetically”. That’s bullshit. So, time for you to go away. Goodbye.

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          5. @Bonshika Jackson
            “Sixty-nine percent of atheists are or lean Democrat…”
            Hahahahaha this would be the Democrat party that’s all for free trade, the free market and is supposedly “corrupted by business interest groups”? Whose presidents include Harry Truman, John Fitzgerald Kennedy and Lyndon Barnes Johnson, probably the three most anti-USSR presidents of all?
            Thanks for proving yourself wrong about atheists being “committed leftists” who “turn a blind eye to Soviet (indeed, all socialist) atrocities” in the USA.

            “Likewise, in the UK, forty-seven percent of the “nones” voted Labour in the 2017 election, versus thirty-percent for the Tories:”

            Are you arithmetically challenged? 47% vs 30% is hardly any strong favouring of one over the other. It means that almost a third of atheists in the UK are Tories, a pretty large & significant minority.
            Furthermore; you’d hardly call the British labour party since the departure of Neil Kinnock to be very left wing at all, the last Labour government of Blair/Brown was probably Britain’s most capitalist ever.

            “The same holds true for Canada: https://www.secularismandnonreligion.org/articles/10.5334/snr.112/#political-affiliations
            Oh yeah, that’s a great source; Some blog where someone has surveyed a whopping 35 people in two Canadian cities (en sarc).
            And they all supported one party that only polls about 20% each election? It would be about 25% of Canada that identifies at irreligious so are all of that ~20% who vote for this party atheists in your imagination?

            And exactly why did you restrict your generalisation to “the anglosphere” (well, 3 nations, at least one of which is less in the Anglosphere than aforementioned New Zealand anyway)? Does the vast majority of the world that is beyond the Anglosphere somehow not count in your imagination or something?

            “I challenge anyone to produce any statistics that show atheists leaning right-ward in any Western country — hell, any of them splitting 50-50 in that respect.”
            Why should anyone rise to this silly challenge?
            You’re the one making any claims here. And you’ve failed dismally to prove any of them.

            “Leftism is the political expression of atheism, and has been ever since the French Revolution.”
            What twaddle. I know this may be hard for some American of the idiot type who’s had their critical thinking ruined by an upbringing of religious indoctrination: But the vast majority of people in the developed world do not much mix their religion and their politics.
            Atheism is apolitical. The origins of the political left very much involved many of the religious clergy and other church-affiliated activists (such as the salvation army); who were fighting the gross social inequality that liberalism (AKA the policies of the Whigs) had brought about and which conservatism was bumbling-about addressing.
            And in the British commonwealth (at least, I suspect also the rest of the developed world bar the USA); the religious churchy type people are usually far more likely to vote for the more socialist-oriented parties whilst the free-market oriented parties attract the people for whom religion takes at least second place to making a buck.

            “because a major premise of left-wing politics has always been that atheism out to be assumed in the political arena, i.e., that laws and public policies should be formulated “etsi Deus non daretur,” i.e., as if God does not exist.”
            You’re very confused.
            The political left has promoted SECULARISM, which makes religion a private matter and out of government. The political right has generally only sporadically opposed that. Today; most people across the spectrum would agree with secularism.

            “I’m not making this up”
            That I can believe. I think you’ve been told this from some very unreliable source. Most likely one whom you also donate money to (desite him being very affluent) and who also tells you nonsense things such as “evolution is just a theory”.

            “and any intellectually honest person who associates with atheists knows this”
            (smirks) Yeah good luck with that…

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          6. @Pyrogenesis:
            You may be “a lefty” and an atheist from Estonia.

            But unless you’re one of those people from Estonia whose last name ends in “СКЙ”, “ИЧ”, “ИН” or “ОВ” I’d find it very hard to believe that you “turn a blind eye to Soviet (indeed, all socialist) atrocities”.

          7. It is really funny to see Tim get so emotional about a subject. I think it is fairly obvious that as much as he can objectively analyze the past, he is very much a man of his time and has biases because of his political leanings.
            I wish you had actually continued the discussion with Bonshika and not just outright refuse to continue. People on the left seem to refuse conversation when it does not go the way they want it to go. You might consider it pointless and maybe that is why you want to stop talking about certain issues, but you should really try to talk it out unless insults start appearing in the conversation. This was definitely not the case here.
            Again, very disappointed.

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          8. “Emotional”? This weird Catholic conservative person “Bonishka” came here parroting some nonsense about how a “vast majority” of atheists are “leftists” who are sympathetic to Soviet totalitarianism. This was bullshit and when challenged to back her (?) claim, she failed to do so. I’ve indulged this person more than enough on this off-topic side issue and am not interested in hearing her simply repeat her crap again. You too can either get on topic or shut up. You can go debate so-called “leftists” anywhere else you like, but this forum is for discussion of the article’s subjects and any side issues usually get shut down by me – this is my forum for my blog, not a free for all.

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    2. I’m not too well versed on the new atheist authors, but who outside of Hitch had expressed sympathy for the communist cause? Even in the case of Hitchens, he aligned with the Trotskyists, who are the most vocally anti-Stalin faction among communists.

      1. About Canada: this is a stronger study than the one dismissed, but not quite on the mark. https://uwaterloo.ca/arts/news/how-religious-beliefs-affect-voting-behavior-canada
        Excerpt from study “The study found that in 2015 an estimated 49 per cent of voters considered religion to be important or very important in their lives. In turn, 43 per cent of voters who considered religion to be very important in their lives voted Conservative, compared with an estimated 28% in the general adult population. Religious beliefs and participation had a stronger influence on the vote than gender, level of education, employment status, and country of birth.”

      2. The weird Catholic’s data shows a clear preference of atheists for the Left and your mockery does not refute it. There are simply more Democrats who are atheists than Republicans. Another Pew finding:Belief in God by political party (2014) shows a 73% to 55% difference. This certainly significant in politics, especially given the closeness of the parties. Unclear is the nature of the relationship.

        1. You are only looking at the States.
          In normal secular country’s, atheism or theism is far less associated with a certain political leaning. In Western europe, ‘liberal’ parties were rather anti-religion untill just a few decades ago. And still today they like to see themselves as heirs of the enlightenment. But their economic policies are more centre right. The Western european Catholics are considered rather progressive and left wing in the church. Many faithfull christians in Western Europe support (sometimes even welcome) refugees, help the poor (with real political stances, not just with cups of soup), are active in peace movements, find universal health care self evident, … all things americans consider far left.

          In the Western world, it’s the US who is the outlier!

  4. “does not support the idea that he was a Christian”
    A rather meaningless conclusion, because you forgot to devine “christian” and “christianity”. That’s notoriously difficult of course. So

    “Hitler made repeated, unambiguous references to …..”
    can be used to formulate a definition according to which Hitler did qualify.
    But again this is a rather silly exercise. OK, let’s accept that Hitler was a christian. So what? Holding this against pacifist christians and liberation theologians is beyond stupid. It’s as stupid as holding Pol Pot’s Killing Fields against atheists.
    Oh – and christians who want to connect atheism with nazism should point at Martin Bormann instead.

    “by a wily politician who was a known liar”
    This widely used argument is way too simple. On the contrary, in his own sick way Hitler was one of the most honest politicians in human history (it’s easy to find modern historians who will confirm this). He completely laid out his political program in Mein Kampf. With a few adaptations (like the Molotov-Von Ribbentrop Pact), mostly temporary, he realized it completely. In this book he also refers to christianity (even to creationism) in a positive way. So this cannot be used as an argument against “Hitler was a christian”.
    It’s unfortunate that the only nation in the 1930’s who did accept Hitler’s honesty in Mein Kampf was the Soviet-Union. It’s incorrect for us to repeat the disastrous mistake of Western-European politicians back then.

    “According to his followers’ paraphrases.”
    Every single one of them had his own agenda and generally they were liars too. So I don’t see why we should accept what they say and reject what’s written in Mein Kampf.

    “Hitler was a manipulative politician”
    Christians can be manipulative politicians just fine like anyone else. Paying lip service is compatible with “Hitler was a christian” (duh).

    “most Catholics remained …..”
    Given that polls were nearly impossible after 1933 this cannot be backed up.

    “the German Resistance”
    Granted, but German Resistance always was very small and hence not representative.
    Also it should be noted that most German clergy was probably ambiguous and hence highly problematic. Bishop Von Galen is always mentioned because of his opposition against nazi-eugenetics, which was very courageous indeed. Unfortunately he had far less problems with nazi-antisemitism.
    Nothing of this contradicts “support for the Nazis is patent misrepresentation”, but simplified “opposition to ….” is also misleading. The RCC acted like organizations usually do – it’s own survival was top priority, often at the cost of heroism. Of course I qutie doubt if I had had the courage needed. It should be noted for instance that more Dutch men entered the Waffen-SS in 1941 than ever fought in Dutch Resistance. This makes the exceptions – like the catholics Brandsma and De Jong, mentioned above – all the more admirable.

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    1. “A rather meaningless conclusion, because you forgot to devine “christian” and “christianity”. “

      It is not “meaningless”. And see if you can define “Christian” and “Christianity” in a coherent way that somehow encompasses Hitler’s ideas about Jesus. Good luck.

      “This widely used argument is way too simple.”

      Garbage. Hitler was lying when he claimed to be, in some sense, a Christian. I give just a sample of the masses of evidence that shows this.

      “Every single one of them had his own agenda and generally they were liars too. “

      And I’ve taken that into account. As have all the historians who have been over the evidence in detail. This includes things some of these men wrote to themselves in their diaries. The best conclusion is that Hitler was clearly not a Christian.

      The rest of your comments are less than coherent and it seems you are nitpicking. I have been reading extensively for years on this topic and am pretty confident I know far more about it than you. So any more confused nitpicking will go in the trash. And be warned – you are getting annoying enough to be on the brink of being put in the spam file. If you think you know better than me and the historical consensus positions I’ve presented, feel free to go write your own article.

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  5. Awesome article Tim! Would it be possible to make an article(maybe the future one about the holocast)that also tackles the question about how the protestant churches in europe reacted to the nazis?

    1. As I mention above, the myths surrounding Pius XII and his response to the Nazi oppression of the Jews and the Holocaust will be the subject of a future “Great Myths” article. I have seen few New Atheist distortions of the Protestant reactions to the Nazis – it always seems to be the Catholic Church that is the focus of their arguments when it comes to this topic. So no, I don’t think that is worth an article in its own right.

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  6. Tim,
    As someone who’s seen the “Hitler was a Christian. The Pope supported Hitler. Ergo …” argument, and been surprised by it, but never had time/energy/inclination to investigate it; I give you a huge THANK YOU. This seems to me to be a well argued, nuanced and even handed treatment of the issue.

    Chapeau

  7. Yet another controversial topic well researched and explained. Thanks for another informative piece, Tim.

    As is often the case, I’ve got a question about something in the article that isn’t the point of your piece; insert my usual caveats apologizing for ‘potentially off topic’. Feel free to ignore this as you see fit.

    I was under the false impression that Hitler was a Germanic neopagan prior to reading this piece. If I’m reading the article right, you describe Hitler as a theist. Is it possible to accurately categorize Hitler’s religious beliefs with a more specific term than theist?

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    1. “Is it possible to accurately categorize Hitler’s religious beliefs with a more specific term than theist?”

      Not really. Like the rest of his ideology, his religious conceptions were a largely incoherent mish mash of ideas, popular theories and cliches. He seems to have absorbed a lot of ideas around at the time, so he is reported to have done some dabbling with books on occultism in his late teens, but it is clear he had rejected the kind of esoterica and neo-paganism that obsessed Himmler. Speer reports his scorn for that kind of thinking, reporting him saying of Himmler’s weaving of his occultism into the ideology of the SS:

      “What nonsense! Here we have at last reached an age that has left all mysticism behind it, and now [Himmler] wants to start that all over again. We might just as well have stayed with the church. At least it had tradition. To think that I may, some day, be turned into an SS saint! Can you imagine it? I would turn over in my grave …”

      He seems to have read and often discussed some of the fringe theories around at the time, including claims about reincarnation, Atlantis and the Glazial-Kosmogonie or “World Ice Theory”, but he mainly seems to have seen these things are symbolic archetypes rather than real. He was much more inclined toward some of the rather kooky ideas about the origins of racial types and his acceptance of Gustaf Kossinna’s theory that the “Aryan peoples” originated in northern Germany and expanded throughout Europe, the northern Levant and across central Asia into India led him to adopt the Indian swastika as the symbol of his movement.

      He genuinely seems to have seen Jesus as an Aryan anti-Semite who was executed because of his opposition to “the Jews”. He saw Paul as the one who changed Jesus’ message from one of struggle for racial supremacy to a form of “Bolshevism” based on equality and sharing, which Hitler rejected utterly.

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      1. Thanks for the in depth answer, Tim…and for sparing me from having to stare into the abyss that is Hitler’s beliefs, while I’m making a list.

      2. I don’t mean this point as a serious label as Hitler’s religious views were fluid and unclear, but the closest label encompassing has always seemed a Marcionite of sorts.

        Somewhere or other, a commenter on the Table Talk collection of semi-private Hitler monologues has noted Hitler comes across as “a rather bigoted [German] Protestant” in his comments on Catholicism and priests.

  8. Thanks so much for the article. I think I’ll hold off on any judgement until all of Pius’ documents are released, but this essay make me way more sympathetic to his situation.

    A few questions:

    1) Any good reading recommendations on Hitler’s weird Bizarro Jesus?

    2) Wasn’t Pius antisemitic himself? Granted, I’m sure it wasn’t a racial antisemitism, but from what I remember he didn’t have the best relationship with Jews.

    3) Unless I misunderstand, it seem a concordat is done when the Church feels like it’s about to get persecuted. If so, why did the Vatican want a concordat with the Weimar Republic, which had a Catholic party as one of its coalition partners?

    4) Why do you think the Vatican has been so hesitant with the documents until now if the evidence is on their side?

    1. “Any good reading recommendations on Hitler’s weird Bizarro Jesus?”

      His ideas have their origins in the Völkisch movement” and are expressed in the works of the Nazi ideologue Alfred Rosenberg, especially his The Myth of the Twentieth Century (1930). Bacically they are a weird offshoot of the nineteenth German higher criticism of the New Testament, which saw a variety of conceptions of the historical Jesus that included some very strange, fringe ones.

      “Wasn’t Pius antisemitic himself? Granted, I’m sure it wasn’t a racial antisemitism, but from what I remember he didn’t have the best relationship with Jews.”

      Pius was not anti-Semitic. I will be detailing the abundant evidence that he hated all forms of racism and rejected anti-Semitism in my later article on the Church and the Holocaust. He was a champion of the foundation of Israel and was responsible, directly and indirectly, for saving thousands of Jews in Italy and elsewhere. The Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, was one of the thousands of Jews whose life was saved by Pius’ actions. He later converted to Catholicism and took the pope’s personal name – Eugenio – as his baptismal name in honour of what Pius had done. You would need to explain to Rabbi Zolli that Pius was “anti-Semitic” – I’m sure he would be very surprised to learn this.

      “If so, why did the Vatican want a concordat with the Weimar Republic, which had a Catholic party as one of its coalition partners?”

      Because German politics was volitile and there were many, including within the various Weimar coaltions, who were hostile to the Catholic Church. They were seeking a concordat just in case a hostile party came to power. Which, in 1933, is exactly what happened.

      “Why do you think the Vatican has been so hesitant with the documents until now if the evidence is on their side?”

      Internal politics. Pius XII was the last pope before the huge reforms of the Second Vatican Council, which was called by his successor John XXIII in 1959. That Council ushered in major changes which transformed the Catholic Church. Supporters of those reforms argue they dragged the Church into the modern world. Its traditionalist detractors say it critically weakened the Church and want to take things back to how they were before the reforms. The latter are vocal apologists for Pius XII in the face of any or all criticisms, seeing him as the last “proper” pope before everything went bad. They are the ones who are pushing hardest for him to be made a saint. Pope Francis is seen by them as another radical reformer and as less then suitably enthusiastic about the canonisation of Pius.

      Back in 1999 the then pope, John Paul II, tried to silence the critics of Pius by setting up a commission of six academics, including three Jewish scholars, to look into the Church’s role in the Second World War. But access to all relevant documents was restricted and the commission dissolved in acrimony. The issue seems to be that open access to all documents will almost certainly not expose Pius as an anti-Semite or a pro-Nazi pope, but it will make it very hard for the champions of Pius’ canonisation to present him as a brave and outspoken hero. Because he wasn’t that.

      So the fact that Francis is, it seems, giving full access from next year is an interesting development and probably not one that will help the cause of the traditionalists.

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      1. The Aryan Jesus theory was strongly connected to the racist theories of pan-Babylonist Assyriologist Friedrich Delitzsch, a scholar favored by Kaiser Wilhelm. Delitzsch followed a brand of racial theory that expanded Emanuel Kant’s anthropological theories about ‘rationality’ as a trait of the white race to divide peoples into ‘creative’ peoples and those who could merely copy and adapt the ideas of others (a variant of this survives to the modern day in the claim that Chinese industry is reliant on stealing western intellectual property).

        The pan-Babylonian movement in German Assyriology claimed that the Bible was entirely derivative of Babylonian mythology under this idea that the Jews were not a creative race, which was in turn related to the older medieval Christian concept of the Jews as a people trapped in a pre-Christian era who deserved toleration only because they might be saved in the future. Delitzsch interpreted cuneiform references to the migration of nomads into ancient Mesopotamia as proof that the cultural sophistication of Babylon was the result of a Indo-European elite and that Jesus was descended from this same population based on little more than the racist assumption that a Jew could not found a religion. There was a contingent of Germans at the time who thought the old testament should be thrown out and replaced by German folklore but the New testament should be kept. Worried that European claims to be superior to Asia might look nonsensical in light of the sheer age of Asian civilizations some scholars tried to prove that the New Testament owed more to Greek philosophy than the Old Testament (a cause helped by the division of academic disciplines between Semitics and classicists) and that Christianity was therefore European rather than Asian while Delitzsch worked to show that the Old Testament was derivative of Babylonian culture and therefore if European culture had to be derivative of Asian Culture it would be of the Imperial Babylonian empire not of their provincial Jewish captives. Delitzsch thought that he could show the Aryan origins of all higher culture and put inferior derivative peoples and traditions in their place.

        The sad thing is that this deeply anti-semitic pan-Babylonism is very popular in New Atheist circles even though the roots of the argument is obscured from them. Its not hard to find atheist memes about the superiority of Hammerabi’s code to the 10 commandments, which makes no sense as Hammerabi’s code isn’t even the oldest Mesopotamian predecessor to the 10 commandments. By exalting the ‘firsts’ of Mesopotanian culture in their denials that western civilisation has a strong Old Testament influence they have become in many was the heirs of Friedrich Delitzsch, just as their Whig history focused projections of modern rationalism and democracy onto ancient Greece reflects that of a even more popular Western Cultural Chauvinism that is only slightly less direct in it racist foundations. New Atheists are ignorant of the vast differences in Jewish and Protestant readings of the Old Testament and find it polemically convenient to let Fundamentalists get away with their lie that theirs is the ‘straight and plain reading’, while their reliance on Whig history stops them from denouncing the later New Testament on the same level. To accept the common trope that the New Testament is the merciful book while the Old Testament is the angry and wrathful book one must completely ignore the millennia spanning Rabbinic traditions of exegesis which centers mercy as a key theme of the Torah. New Atheists seem so quick to fight Christian fundamentalism that they don’t care about how their demonstration of the Old Testament reflects on Jewish culture.

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        1. I’m afraid that rather slight and dubious reference in an encyclopedia is not a very substantial piece of evidence. When those laws were put into effect and thousands of Jews began to be deported from Vichy France in August 1941, Pius XII condemned the action, speaking “with exceptional decisiveness against the over-evaluation of blood and race” (The Tablet, Sept 28, 1941, p. 252). On August 1, 1941, Vatican Radio broadcast a message from Pius on “the great scandal [of] the treatment suffered by the Jews [who] are killed, brutalised, tortured because they are victims bereft of defence” and asking “how can a Christian accept such deeds?” Several European cardinals also spoke out in protest, all broadcast on Vatican Radio – something that only happened with direct papal approval.

          More directly, Papal Nuncio to France Valerio Valeri contacted Petain, head of the Vichy government, to officially object. Petain responded ” I hope the Pope understands my attitude in these difficult times” and Valeri replised “That is precisely what the Pope cannot understand.” Papal Secretary of State Maglione told the French ambassador to the Vatican that the deportations were a “gross infraction” and irreconcilable with Petain’s professed Christian beliefs. When 13,000 Jews were rounded up in Paris in July 1942, the collected French bishops issued a joint condemnation. The Jewish Chronicle reported at the time that “Catholic priests have taken a leading part in hiding hunted Jews and sheltering the children of those who are under arrest or have been deported to Germany” (Sept 4, 1942) At the same time Catholic teachings on racial equality were broadcast on Vatican Radio into France in French, with Cardinal Gerlier explicitly noting that this was done under the Pope’s instruction.

          I could give you about a dozen other examples of condemnation and action taken by Pius XII or at his instruction in condemnation of Vichy anti-Semitism, but you should have the idea by now. Perhaps you should research this beyond one encyclopedia’s rather sketchy analysis.

          1. Pittsburgh Press, 26 August 1942.
            Page 8.
            Pope Pius Acts on Behalf of France’s Jews.
            By the United Press
            FRENCH FRONTIER, Aug. 24 — (Delayed) –Monsignor Valerio Valeri, at a conference with Pierre Laval at Vichy last Saturday, presented an urgent appeal by Pope Pius XII for moderation in the treatment of Jews and other refugees in France….
            The appeal coincided with a spirited written protest sent [to] Marshal Petain by Cardinal Suhard, Archbishop of Paris, and Cardinal Gerlier, Archbishop of Lyons, against racial and religious persecution in France….

            There were indications that the Pope’s and Cardinal’s intervention may prevent extension of the anti-Jewish laws now applicable in Occupied France to the free zone…

            The Nazi-controlled Paris press continues to urge application of these laws in unoccupied France, but Petain and Laval reportedly are withstanding this pressure since Catholic intervention.

            The Pope’s appeal was understood to have resulted when the Vatican learned of German demands that all German, Austrian, Polish, Czech and Baltic Jewish refugees…in France after 1936 be rounded up for deportation.

      2. You wrote:
        “Pius was not anti-Semitic. I will be detailing the abundant evidence that he hated all forms of racism and rejected anti-Semitism in my later article on the Church and the Holocaust.”

        I tried searching your site but didn’t see an article on that subject. Did I miss it, or has it not been written/published yet?

    1. In his book Three Popes and the Jews (1967) Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide estimates that, through direct action and the actions of senior clergy at his urging, Pius “was instrumental in saving at least 700,000 but probably as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands”. Pius’ detractors have tried to argue this estimate down, but no-one can deny that the total has to be in the hundreds of thousands of people. Hitler’s biographer John Toland is highly critical of Pius’ caution in condemning Nazi atrocities against the Jews, but concluded in 1997 “The Church, under the Pope’s guidance, had already saved the lives of more Jews than all other churches, religious institutions and rescue organizations combined…”.

      The detractors of Pius can’t actually claim that the Catholic Church didn’t save hundreds of thousands of Jews and so usually resort to claiming this was somehow despite the pope’s inaction or disinterest and was purely due to actions taken by other clergy on their own initiative. This is directly contrary to multiple reports by the prelates and clergy involved, who consistently insist that it was directly because of the pope’s covert instructions, encouragement and aid.

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      1. This would surely help the cause of those who want to canonize this Pope. The number of Jews saved exceeds most of those whom Israel calls “Righteous among the nations”.

  9. Re: Bishops and priests giving the Nazi salute

    This was an issue faced by others in the years immediately before WW2. For example:

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/nostalgia-aston-villas-defiant-salute-189855
    also
    https://appeasement.blog/aston-villas-double-nazi-salute/

    and an example of the England team doing the salute:
    https://appeasement.blog/englands-nazi-salute/

    It is significant that the British newspapers of the time (cited in the links above) saw nothing wrong with footballers giving the Nazi salute at the beginning of matches and it is clear that the giving of the salute was seen at the time as a courtesy, rather than as any sort of affirmation, so it would be wise to treat the priests’ and bishops’ actions in the same way. It is only too easy to look at this with the benefit of hindsight and to misinterpret the clerics’ intentions.

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  10. Thanks for the article Tim, great reading. In regards to the issue as to whether or not Hitler was a Christian I think the evidence falls very much on the side that he wasn’t. Sure he was a baptised Roman Catholic (and never relinquished his membership of the Church) but what evidence do we have of him attending Mass or espousing Catholic beliefs as an adult? None that I can see. It’s misleading for those who refer to the many seemingly positive statements he made about God and Christianity as if that provides “proof” of his Christianity and yet ignore the plethora of anti-Christian statements he made in private where he vented his true feeling towards the Church. Richard Dawkins puts it well when he wrote in the The God Delusion: “It could be argued that, despite his own words and those of his associates, Hitler was not really religious but just cynically exploiting the religiosity of his audience. He may have agreed with Napoleon, who said, ‘Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet,’ and with Seneca the Younger: ‘Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.’ Nobody could deny that Hitler was capable of such insincerity.” Biblically, to be called a “Christian” means a “follower of Christ”. Hitler’s so-called Christianity can be measured in a war that he started which resulted in the deaths of tens of millions including 6 million Jews, Gypsies, Slavs and other ethnic groups he despised. Hitler may have had some quasi-religious leanings which included elements of fate, destiny and providence but at the end of the day he believed in no higher power than himself.

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    1. Hitler’s so-called Christianity can be measured in a war that he started which resulted in the deaths of tens of millions including 6 million Jews, Gypsies, Slavs and other ethnic groups he despised.

      But this is veering rather close to the “No True Scotsman Fallacy”. Plenty of devout Christians have been responsible for starting terrible wars and ordering or justifying terrible mass murders. And several of Hitler’s lieutenants and a large proportion of the SS were Christians – devout, believing and practicing ones. Hitler can’t be considered a Christian because he was not a believer, not because he did evil things.

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      1. Thanks for the response Tim.

        In reference to your statement: “And several of Hitler’s lieutenants and a large proportion of the SS were Christians – devout, believing and practicing ones.” As you would know the SS were responsible for enforcing Nazi racial ideology and operating the death camps. My understanding is that membership of the SS was confined to those who met certain “Aryan” physical traits and who renounced or withdrew any pre-existing organisation membership, including Church membership, because they were required to make an oath of unconditional loyalty to Hitler.

        In Pawel Bloch’s book “Richard Dawkins’ God Delusion” he states: “Joining [the] SS one had to depart from religion. This fact is mentioned by Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski (SS higher police commander, SS Obergruppenfuhrer), who states: ‘Naturally, when I was in [the] SS, from approximately 1930 till the end of the war in 1945, I couldn’t practice. Before I joined [the] SS, I wrote and presented a certificate that I departed from the Lutheran Church. As a leader of [the] SS I had to deny religion. It was absolutely impossible for me to go to church in the SS uniform’. Similarly Waldemar Machol, a Gestapo officer, also discusses issues of [the] anti-religiousness of [the] SS as well as the whole Nazi system: ‘In [the] SS and Gestapo I didn’t go to church and I didn’t pray, because nobody in these formations did’.”

        Now I suppose that despite showing an outward sign that they weren’t believers members of the SS could hold to their religious convictions inwardly however In consideration of the above I’m having difficulty in accepting that large numbers of the SS were practising Christians especially when its very founder, Adolph Hitler, wasn’t.

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        1. Here’s where we have to be very careful about selective evidence. Yes, the SS actively discouraged Christianity in its ranks and to rise in the organisation it was best to embrace the neo-paganism of its leaders or at least abandon Christianity. Despite this, in 1938 54% of the SS still declared themselves Protestant and around 24% said they were Catholic. Given the ideological pressure to reject Christianity, it is unlikely these people were nominal Christians – most of them seem to have been declaring themselves such because they were genuine in their faith.

          1. Thanks Tim. No doubt there would have been Christians among the ranks of the SS but how in their capacity as death camp guards or being members of the Einsatzgruppen (for example) they squared their Christian faith with a daily dose of murdering innocent men, women and children is beyond me. Perhaps it was part of the introdocrination they received.

          2. It’s beyond me as well. Just as it’s beyond me that southern slave owners squared their treating fellow humans like animals to be worked and beaten or sold like chattels with their devout faith. Or it’s beyond me how inquisitors squared torture and burning alive of other people for “heresies”, real and imagined, with their faith. There are dozens of other examples, but I’m sure you get the idea. Saying “they did wicked things that don’t square with my faith so they were not really Christians” is a classic example of the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

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        2. Was the SS funded by Hitler?
          I’m no expert but I always thought that it was founded by some Nazi called Julius Schreck or something.

          1. “Funded”? Prior to 1933 the SS was part of the Nazi Party organisation and funded by the Party. After 1933 it was a state organisation and a branch of the government and so was funded by the German state. It was never personally “funded” by Hitler. Julius Schreck was not its funder either, just its commander from 1925-26, when he stood down and became Hitler’s personal chauffeur.

      2. Well, (ww2 only) Some High ranking Nazies were Jews, even a handful of Generalfeldmarschalls; Admirals, divisional Generals, thousands of Wehrmacht officers and more than 100k soldiers were Jews; some 200 (+/-) received the Iron Cross… also SS officers and SS rank and file…
        None expressed any regrets (unless pressed by family to save face)
        The irony: fighting for the one that exterminates your people.
        Most of them lacked any Religious links to Judaism, hence the situation ?
        WW2 was a total mess…
        http://www.jewish-american-society-for-historic-preservation.org/images/Hitler.pdf

        🙁

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    2. Carl,
      To expand on what Tim has already written, Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany was a Lutheran, while Franz Joseph I of Austria was a Roman Catholic. It didn’t stop either of them initiating World War 1. This was a situation where alliances between countries counted for much more than the religion of their leaders.

  11. Tim, hitchens once stated that the catholic church never excommunicated any catholic nazi related to the SS or nazi party, but gladly excommunicated goebells for marrying a protestant. Is this true or is it flawed rethoric?

    1. One of the reasons this article took so long to write is I had to keep editing it down to keep it to a manageable size. This meant there were a range of side issues that I had to largely ignore to keep it from becoming book-length. The issue of “why didn’t they excommunicate Hitler and the leading Nazis for being wicked?” is one of those. I may have to write a shorter follow-up article/appendix on that topic. In brief – they are mistaking excommunication for something the Church does to bad people for being evil. But that is not what excommunication is. That said, they did consider excommunicating Hitler as a statement, but rejected that on several grounds.

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  12. Tim, how accurate is the book “the pope and mussolini” by David kertzer which in the final chapters argues(just like hitchens) that pius xi was anti-nazi while pius xii was entirely passive towards them. David kertzer also apperently wrote the book “the popes against the jews for about a decade ago and it seems to me that it’s quite controversial. Do you know something about this guy and is he a reliable source on history?

    1. Sorry, I haven’t heard of that book and so haven’t read it. Looking at reviews of and an extract from The Popes Against the Jews, it seems this guy has something of a polemical axe to grind, though his examples of Catholic anti-Semitism are valid enough, if not the whole picture. But any argument that Pius was purely “passive” is wrong for the reasons I’ve detailed above.

  13. It is perfectly true that, overall, Pacelli and the Catholic Church were not ‘allies’ of the Nazis. Tim’s article is quite good at underlining that.
    I think however that it would be good to point out a few things to give some context. First, the difference between ‘Nazism’ and the more general phenomenon of Fascist regimes in interwar Europe, as the Church’s relationship with one was quite different than it was with the others. Second, it’s good to remember that the Pope and the Church, or even high Vatican hierarchies, had often quite distant positions. Third, that the Pope himself, while hostile to Nazism, was more hostile to Soviet communism, and acted consequently.

    Generally, the Catholic Church had little simpathy for National-Socialism because the central core of its ideology was biological racism. The implications of which (monogeny in particular) were at odds with Catholic universalist beliefs. Catholic antisemitism had a longer history than Nazi one, but it was of a inherently different nature. That said, I think it is worth mentioning that looking at ‘Nazism’ as if it existed in a vacuum is wrong. The Vatican and large portions of the Catholic Church hierarchy were indeed often opposed to the Nazi Regime, and certainly opposed the War it started and the genocide of the jews. However, Catholic hierarchies all over Europe were much likelier to simpathise with Fascism than otherwise. Pius XI blessed Mussolini as ‘sent by the Providence’, and while he had frictions with the Fascist Regime, it also a comfortable agreement with it, for the simple reason that it preferred it over both liberalism and socialism. The concordat with Mussolini was not out of fear; it was due to reciprocal esteem and profit. No Fascist was ever excommunicated by the Catholic Church even if Nazis were for a while. During the Ethiopian War, the Fascist aggression war enjoyed the overwhelming support of Catholic hierarchies in Italy, and among common priests, although the Pope was less enthusiastic. When the Nazis installed Tiso in Slovakia, the Church did nothing about it. Pacelli did not even have any personal contact with Tiso until 1944, and even then it was just about antisemitic violence. It had nothing to do with Tiso being the head of a rutheless totalitarian regime which served the interests of Nazi Germany.
    The Church’s relationship with Francisco Franco, the Spanish golpist, dictator and responsible of tens of thousands of deaths during his post-civil-war repressions, is also remarkably positive. Also (but certainly not only) because of the anti-Catholic violence on the Republican side (which appears numerically negligeable if compared with Franco’s death toll), with almost no exception, the Spanish Catholic hierarchies supported Franco’s illegal, violent uprising, endorsed by Hitler and Mussolini. Pius XI was at first lukewarm in supporting Franco, but Pacelli had not such doubts. A few months after having succeeded Pius XI, Pacelli’s speech to celebrate Franco’s victory stated that

    ‘With great joy We address you, most dear children of Catholic Spain, to express to you our fatherly congratulations for the gift of peace and of victory, with which God has deemed worthy to crown the Christian heroism of your faith and charity, tried in so many and so generous sufferings.’

    In a war the Church depicted as a true Crusade, Hitler and the Pope were on the same side. The support did not cease after Franco’s victory, and the Church was rewarded with great privileges in the dictatorial state emerged from the war.

    Once the second world war had begun, it gets even grimmer. In Nazi and Italian occupied Croatia, the Ustasa Regime was particularly violent. It was a regime strongly supported by the Croatian Catholic clergy. Cardinal Stepinac was against Hitler’s and Pavelic’s antisemitism, but was also an enthusiastic supporter of the Ustasa regime, of its authoritarian and repressive nature, and especially of its firm Catholicism. Pacelli was more moderate, refusing to officially recognise the Ustasa state; but that was more due to the Church’s refusal to recognise new countries emerged from the war before a peace treaty and to the necessity to remain neutral than to humanitarian concerns (once again excluding the antisemitic violence). Generally, in Croatia the Catholic clergy did not just support the authoritarian regime; it also supported its attempts to forcibly convert Orthodox Serbians to Catholicism, and often even accepted the violent treatment the Ustasa reserved to anybody who was not a Croat or a Catholic.
    But even concerning the Nazis things are not so rosey. It is true that the Pope mantained a rigid neutrality and (unlike the common opinion) never officially blessed Operation Barbarossa. Privately, the Pope was less ‘neutral’. In February 1943 the German diplomat in Bruxelles Von Bargen reported that the Pope was scared of the Russian successes in the East, and feared, ‘most of all’ a Bolshevic victory.
    In July, the German ambassador Weiszaecker reported that Pius considered the interests of Germany and of the Vatican ‘the same’ concerning the Soviet Union.
    In December 1943, however, when it was clear that the Soviets were having the upper hand in the East, the Pope told Weiszaecker that he hoped the Nazis would keep their positions on the Eastern front, so to prevent a Communist victory. Furthermore, he hoped in a coalition of western nations against the Soviet Union (all the German diplomatic documents quoted are reported in ‘La santissima trinità’ by Tranfaglia, Casarrubea, 2012).

    In conclusion, the Catholic Church and Pope Pius XII in particular had no problem with Fascism in general, while wanting to mantain their autonomy and hence not always playing on the same side; and actually preferred it over ‘godless’ Socialism and Liberalism. They had a problem with National Socialism in particular because it was extreme and materialistic in its biological racism. The Pope also consistently opposed a new War, but local Catholic hierarchies had a mixed attitude about that. The Vatican did also do what it could to save Jews in Italy and elsehwere; even if the same cannot be said of Catholic hierarchies everywhere. However, still by late 1943, when the proportions and nature of the Holocaust were perfectly clear to him, the Pope *wished that the Nazi defeat could be avoided or at least procrastinated* because that would stop Communism. I really don’t think that this is a minor detail. The Pope would save the Jews if possible. But they could be sacrificed (as the Jews of Eastern Europe would have certainly been had the Nazis resisted the Soviet offensive of 1944) if that meant stopping the advance of Communism.

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    1. There are a vast number of side topics and wider issues that I could have discussed, especially if my article was going to be two or three times its already substantial length. But, as with all my articles, this one was addressing specific claims which are (i) made by anti-theistic atheists and (ii) which are wrong. When anti-theistic atheists address the subject of the Papacy and the Church in this period they generally talk about the Nazis, not “fascism generally” and if they do touch on the Vatican’s relations with Mussolini and Franco they generally don’t make claims as egregiously wrong as “Pius was pro-Nazi”. Please keep the focus of this blog in mind.

      And I noted that the responses of the Vatican and the Church generally to the Nazi’s racial policies, the oppression of Jews and others and the Holocaust is a related topic, but so big it will need to be tackled in a separate article. Pius XI and Pius XII were just as opposed to Communism as they were to Nazism. I have read extensively on their attitudes towards and policies responding to both and can think of nothing at all to support your assertion that “the Pope *wished that the Nazi defeat could be avoided or at least procrastinated* because that would stop Communism”. Pius was not at all pleased with the way the war against Germany allowed a massive expansion of Soviet power, but the claim he “wished that the Nazi defeat could be avoided or at least procrastinated” is substantially nonsense.

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      1. I’m aware of the focus of the blog, and I agreed that the article was useful in countering the ‘Hitler’s Pope’ myth.

        Concerning Pius’ attitudes, the diplomatic documents I mentioned are of public domain, and are only a few of many examples of Pius wishing that the Germans could prevent a Soviet victory in Eastern Europe. To claim that I’m speaking nonsense would require you to prove that these documents are either forgery or examples of German diplomats lying. Unfortunately, Weiszaecker was known to be perfectly able to report on the Holy See’s complete lack of agreement with Berlin, when he saw it, so it’s not clear why he should have been lying in this case.

        There is also little evidence that Pius XI and XII opposed nazism and communism ‘in the same way’. You have already mentioned how the Mit brennender Sorge quite more cautious than the Divini Redemptoris, and the July 1949 decree which excommunicated all Catholics who were also communists ‘as apostates beyond anything Pius did against National Socialism. Your notion that people mistake ‘excommunication for something the Church does to bad people for being evil’ might well be true, but whathever reasoning is behind the choice, the choice remains: communists got excommunicated, Nazis did not.
        Within this context, I don’t see why Pius XII wishing the Wehrmacht could defeat the Soviets’ attempt to break through its Eastern Front as the original sources suggest would be nonsensical.

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        1. the diplomatic documents I mentioned are of public domain, and are only a few of many examples of Pius wishing that the Germans could prevent a Soviet victory in Eastern Europe.

          Then maybe now would be a good time to cite them specifically and quote them directly, rather than just vaguely referring to them. I’m surprised you haven’t done that already.

          Unfortunately, Weiszaecker was known to be perfectly able to report on the Holy See’s complete lack of agreement with Berlin, when he saw it, so it’s not clear why he should have been lying in this case.

          His Embassy Officer Albrecht von Kessel did not agree. He later wrote that “[Weiszaecker’s] messages and documents to Berlin were nothing but lies” and painted the picture that Berlin wanted to hear: one of a pope who was weak, indecisive and substantially pro-German. Whereas others around Pius – i.e. people who didn’t have an incentive to paint Pius as pro-German – tell a very different story. The Jesuit Fr Paolo Dezza says that in 1942 Pius told him “The Communist danger does exist, but at this time the Nazi danger is more serious. They want to destroy the Church and crush it like a toad”. As I note above, one of the reasons he was unwilling to be more specific in some of his condemnations of Nazi Germany was that meant he would have to condemn the Soviet Union too, but he held off doing this because he did not want to damage the Allied war effort against Hitler. The Axis powers thought they could get him to give his blessing to their invasion of the Soviet Union by leaning on his anti-communism, but he refused them as well. At Roosevelt’s request he ceased all explicit mentions of the Soviet Union in his pronouncements. In May 1943 the Spanish ambassador reported that Pius “now regarded Nazism and Fascism, and not Communism, as he used to, as the greatest menace to civilisation”. Minutes of the British High Command from September 10, 1941 state “His Holiness is heart and soul with us in the struggle against Nazism and his attitude as regards the ‘anti-Bolshevist Crusade’ leaves nothing to be desired.” Harold Tittmann reported to Washington that “the last thing the Vatican would welcome would be a Hitler victory” and said Pius regarded “Hitlerism was an enemy more dangerous than Stalinism” and that he desired an Allied victory “even if this meant assistance from Soviet Russia”. And he supported Roosevelt’s requests to support the extension of the lend-lease program to the Soviet Union because it would speed an Allied victory.

          Therefore there is a mass of evidence that he did not favour a German victory in the east over the Soviet Union – quite the opposite. So if you have something other than Weiszaecker’s dubious claims, perhaps now would be an excellent time to produce it.

          1. 1) The three documents I mentioned are all referenced (as I have previously said) in Tranfaglia’s and Casarrubea’s book. I don’t know if you are accustomed with Italian historiography, but they are pretty respectable names.

            2) Weiszaecker was long maligned by other Nazis, because he was considered too soft and moderate, especially considering that he favoured a separate peace with the Allies with the Vatican as a mediator. (See. Hill, 1982)
            I have yet to read an academic publication discounting Weiszaecker reports as ‘lies’, however, and if you want to paint him as dubious you should provide peer reviewed work of historians who do so. If we had to discount every diplomat’s opinion because a subordinate or colleague of his claims he’s worthless, we wouldn’t be able to write diplomatic history. Generally, ignoring the words of the German Ambassador in the Vatican and considering only the words of reports from countries hostile to the Germans (or the Spanish ambassador- by 1943, the Francoist government was drifting away from the Axis and getting closer to the Allies, Heiberg, 2004) might not be the best way to assess the Pope’s position concerning Nazi Germany.

            3) I don’t doubt that when Hitler appeared close to victory Pius XII was perfectly fine with supporting the Allies against him- even the Soviets. It is unsurprising, then, that he supported extending the Land Lease to the Soviet Union, in 1941. As I mentioned, his fear was that a Soviet victory in the East would bring Europe under communist rule.

            4) It is not only Weiszaecker either: I mentioned Von Bargen, German foreign ministry in Bruxelles, whom on 23 February 1943 reported to Berlin that ‘the Pope is disturbed first and foremost by Russian military successes, and by the possibility of a collapse of Germany, which would pave the way for Bolshevism in Europe […] the Pope is especially worried by the Bolshevik threat.’
            Another example is that on 16 December 1943, the infamous Kaltenbrunner sent a report to Von Ribbentrop in which he stated that ‘the Pope has finally realised the scope of the Bolshevik threat on a global level, hinting that only National-socialism has, until now, acted as a bulwark against it.’

            5) I also notice that you did not address my point concerning the failed excommunication of the Nazis. In 1949 Pacelli *did* excommunicate the communists. In 1939, long before the Soviets would become enemies of Hitler, and were actually to the point of becoming his friends in partitioning Eastern Europe, Pacelli could well have done the same with the National Socialists. There was no danger of weakening a non existent allied war effort against Hitler, and even after September 1939, condemning the Soviets as well would have harmed, not improved, the war effort, as Stalin was cooperating with Hitler.

            6) I never said Pius XII wanted Hitler to ‘win’. I said he quite likely did not want Stalin to win, either, in the context of the faltering German resistance in the East in 1943-44. It is quite different, and I ask you not to strawman me.

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          2. The three documents I mentioned are all referenced (as I have previously said) in Tranfaglia’s and Casarrubea’s book.

            Yes, you referred to this book, but it’s odd that you didn’t cite the actual documents or, more importantly, quote at any length from them or give their context.

            Weiszaecker was long maligned by other Nazis, because he was considered too soft and moderate, especially considering that he favoured a separate peace with the Allies with the Vatican as a mediator.

            Yes, he was. Which is another reason why we need to handle his reports about what he claims the pope said in this context with care.

            I have yet to read an academic publication discounting Weiszaecker reports as ‘lies’, however, and if you want to paint him as dubious you should provide peer reviewed work of historians who do so.

            Okay. The earliest detailed analysis of Weiszaecker’s time at the Vatican is Leonidas E. Hill III, “The Vatican Embassy of Ernst von Weizsäcker, 1943-1945”, The Journal of Modern History
            Vol. 39, No. 2 (Jun., 1967), pp. 138-159. Hill notes Weiszaecker’s eagerness to help negotiate a peace and says his emphasis on the Vatican’s view that Germany was “an essential bulwark against socialism” should be treated with great caution. Hill writes “(SS and RSHA officer) Wilhelm Hoettl is not always a trustworthy source, but he and Weiszaecker may have agreed to emphasize in their reports that ‘the total destruction of Germany and Italy was completely contrary to the vital interests of the Vatican and that the latter realised only too well such a catastrophe would benefit Soviet Russia alone. It would not therefore be difficult to persuade the Vatican to invite the attention of the western powers to this possibility.” (Hoettl, p. 229) The heavy emphasis on the Vatican’s hostility to bolshevism may not, then, have been entirely of the Vatican’s making. If so, one should have to read Weiszaecker’s reports with caution: he may not have accurately represented the Vatican’s position.” (Hill, p. 151, n. 74)

            Both Weiszaecker and Hoettl knew that Germany could not win the war and saw the Vatican as a conduit for some kind of peace settlement. The sentiments about Bolshevism and the reported misgivings about a Soviet victory in the east are probably genuine to some extent, but Weiszaecker and Hoettl had an agenda and so good reason to misrepresent the Vatican as far more pro-German than it was. Thus Hill’s extreme caution over accepting their representation of the Vatican’s sentiment at face value.

            I don’t doubt that when Hitler appeared close to victory Pius XII was perfectly fine with supporting the Allies against him- even the Soviets.

            Then I’m afraid you will need to present much more and much stronger evidence that this attitude changed later in the war and that Pius suddenly became concerned to preserve the very regime he had been keen to see overthrown. Because I’m afraid the stuff you’re presented so far does not add up to that rather remarkable conclusion.

            It is not only Weiszaecker either

            It’s hardly surprising that Nazis and Nazi appointees would be emphasising the likely very real misgivings in the Vatican about the prospect of Soviet domination of eastern Europe as it became clear that Germany was going to lose the war. It’s the idea (and their interpretation) that this meant the pope suddenly switched from a desire to see Nazi Germany collapse to wanting to see it preserved that makes no sense. Right from 1939 the Vatican’s secret liaisons with the German Resistance had aimed at ending the war by finding a way to help overthrow Hitler and the Nazis. And the pope was pretty vocal in his misgivings about “unconditional surrender” and “total war” and it would make sense that he would have preferred a way to preserve Germany, minus the Nazis. But to accept (biased) Nazi assurances that this meant he was friendly to the Nazis and wanted them preserved in preference to Soviet expansion just does not make sense.

            I also notice that you did not address my point concerning the failed excommunication of the Nazis. In 1949 Pacelli *did* excommunicate the communists.

            I’ve already noted that the complex issue of why the Nazis were not excommunication wholesale once Hitler came to power, why Hitler was not excommunicated and the use of excommunication to political ends generally is a huge issue and one that may requite a supplementary article in its own right. For now, suffice it to say that to characterise it as “he didn’t excommunicate the Nazis but did excommunicate communists because he preferred the former” is simplistic and largely wrong.

            I never said Pius XII wanted Hitler to ‘win’. I said he quite likely did not want Stalin to win, either, in the context of the faltering German resistance in the East in 1943-44.

            Your exact words were he “wished that the Nazi defeat could be avoided or at least procrastinated”. How exactly “he wished that the Nazi defeat could be avoided” doesn’t mean “he wished the Nazis would win” I have no idea, since the only alternative to avoiding defeat is some kind of victory, especially against an opponent determined to destroy you. Again, there is little doubt that the Vatican, like the western Allies, was not delighted by the prospect of post-war Soviet influence extending into the heart of western Europe. But, like them, it seems to have seen that as a necessary if evil price to pay to ridding the world of the Nazis. Your arguments for more than this – some kind of desire that “the Nazi defeat could be avoided” – rests on some dubious claims by Nazis with an agenda of their own and make no sense in the face of overwhelming evidence that the Papacy worked behind the scenes for years to see the Nazis overthrown.

  14. I don’t know why, but the blog won’t let me ‘reply’ your answer, so I will just write here. I also posted another paragraph but I cannot see it.

    1) I did cite them and gave them context in my reply.

    2) I admit I read Hill long ago, and absolutely did not remember him saying that. If so, this certainly weakens my case, even if I still don’t think one can ignore what many high level German diplomats said on the issue and blindly accept what the Allies said instead.

    3) You assume that only Nazis were capable of wishful thinking. If German ambassadors, ministries and even Kaltenbrunner could let their own hopes and biases distort the Pope’s intentions, why couldn’t the allies too? If we have two sides who both believe that the Pope certainly supported *them*, isn’t it possible that the Pope was feeding both of them a little of bullshit?

    4) You seem to confuse wanting to assassinate Hitler and wanting Germany to lose the war. The Pope did want to see the Nazis gone but that did not mean that him, or the German officers who were conspiring against Hitler, wanted Germany to lose the war.

    5) so your point about excommunication is apparently ‘I can’t explain why, but you are wrong’. Fair. It is also interesting that you did not comment in any way the fact that Pacelli celebrated the Francoist-Fascist-Nazi victory in Spain with no fear of appearing ‘not neutral’ in 1939.

    6) Whoever is accustomed with the period knows that ‘victory’, for Hitler, meant creating a German empire stretching from the Atlantic to the Urals at the very least. I of course deny Pacelli wanted *that*. Now, that ‘dream’ waned by 1943. Afterwards, German eventual defeat was unavoidable, and that was clear to anybody. Germany was going to be defeated by either the Western Allies or by the Soviets, or Germans would have toppled Hitler and accepted a compromise peace. In the last situation, Germany not losing on the Eastern Front would not mean a ‘German victory’, but it would also not mean a ‘German defeat’. I still think that Pacelli would have preferred the first or last scenario, with the Germans resisting on the Eastern Front long enough to allow either the Westerners to take over or an internal revolution to topple Hitler and sign a compromise peace. This was my point to begin with; and you kinda agree with it when you claim that the Pope wanted a separate peace and condemned unconditional surrender.
    The main difference here is that you seem to believe that while the Pope wanted that, he also wanted the Germans being immediatly crushed by the Soviets in the east, arguably because of his morals being utterly offended by the existence itself of nazism. I think here you are giving him too much of a benefit of the doubt, but then it’s not the first time you do that with the Catholic Church. Doesn’t mean you are wrong, though, Hill’s point on Weiszaecker kinda changing the scenario even to me. I’ll need to re read the essay.

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    1. I also posted another paragraph but I cannot see it.

      That just repeated a point you had already made and which I have answered.

      I did cite them and gave them context in my reply.

      You cited the book in which you found them or quotes from them. You did not cite the documents themselves (dates, who they were addressed to etc.) or quote them in any extensive way. And you gave some very partial context.

      If so, this certainly weakens my case, even if I still don’t think one can ignore what many high level German diplomats said on the issue and blindly accept what the Allies said instead.

      Yes, it does weaken your case. Substantially. And noone is “ignoring” what they said, let alone “blindly accepting” what Allied diplomats (and others) said. They are, as Hill has, doing what historians do – weighing the evidence, taking the sources, their biases and their context into account, and assessing how much weight they should be given. Hill correctly notes that, given that analysis and assessment, Weiszaecker and Hoettl and other such statement need to be handled with great caution and not taken at anything like face value.

      You assume that only Nazis were capable of wishful thinking.

      No, I don’t. Again, the Allied reports need to be analysed critically like those of the Nazis. It’s just that, on balance, the idea that the pope suddenly changed his mind about wanting to see Hitler defeated makes no sense.

      You seem to confuse wanting to assassinate Hitler and wanting Germany to lose the war.

      Wrong again. Pius actually saw assassinating Hitler as an extreme resort. Initially he would have preferred Hitler to be simply overthrown. When it became clear that was unlikely, he gave his support to plans to kill him. And when it became clear that, failing a successful assassination, the Nazis would be overthrown by a military victory, he seems to have tried to work toward one that avoided “total war”. But in the end he, like the western Allies, resigned themselves to the Soviets increasing their power as a price for the fall of Hitler.

      so your point about excommunication is apparently ‘I can’t explain why, but you are wrong’.

      Garbage. Go and read what I actually said again.

      It is also interesting that you did not comment in any way the fact that Pacelli celebrated the Francoist-Fascist-Nazi victory in Spain with no fear of appearing ‘not neutral’ in 1939.

      I’ve already explained why I could could not pursue a whole range of side issues. And to hold up that one element in isolation is, again, taking something out of context, ignoring other evidence and oversimplifying things to the point where you’re distorting history. You need to stop doing that.

      I still think that Pacelli would have preferred the first or last scenario, with the Germans resisting on the Eastern Front long enough to allow either the Westerners to take over or an internal revolution to topple Hitler and sign a compromise peace.

      That’s a nice story, but you need to back it up with much more than your speculation and some dubious stuff from Weiszaecker and Co.

      1. 1) Not really. It was an analysis of how the development of the Eastern Front supported my interpretation. It is the context you crave, and yet did not publish.

        2) You didn’t critically assess the sources you posted. You just pasted here some quotes from the Allies and by the Spanish ambassador and assumed that they were reliable, while assuming that all the Germans’ I mentioned did not know what they were talking about.

        3) Then we can wait when you write the next, lenghty article and explain why Pacelli did not excommunicate the Germans in 1939 and did excommunicate the Communists in 1949. I’m quite curious to see what your reasoning will be. I just hope it has nothing to do with ‘harming the war effort’ or ‘being neutral’ as I have already proven that that’s drivel.

        4) I don’t think the support to Franco is irrelevant here. I don’t think anything I wrote about the Church and Fascism is, either. It’s important context, which is useful for people who come here and read your (justified and necessary) demolition of the ‘Hitler’s Pope’ myth and might perhaps get the wrong idea that Pius was anti-Nazi because he was fond of democracy, of human rights, or of ‘peace’, when in reality his beef with nazism and with the War it started had quite a different origin.

        5) You claim that there is no reason to assume that Pacelli would have changed his mind. In doing so, you are making the assumption that since there is (sparse) evidence that Pacelli considered Nazism the greater danger at the time Hitler was triumphant, and that he wished to see Nazism topple, then the claim that he could ALSO have preferred Germany to survive in 1943-44 even at the cost of the Jews being butchered a bit more MUST be false.
        You fail to assess the difference in context between when Hitler appeared able to subjugate Eurasia and was safely in command, and when it appeared that Stalin was about to do so.
        Having the context changed, it makes perfectly sense that Pacelli’s attitude would have changed as well, as German sources (one of which, Weiszaecker, is admitedly dubious, but far from being certainly false, as Hill mentions himself now that I read him again) suggest.
        I want also to point out to you that none of the sources you post contradicts my claim; as none is successive to Kursk. Furthermore, when you claim that since Pacelli thought something in 1941 or 1942 or even in early 1943 he must have thought that after Kursk, you are making an assumption yourself.

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        1. ou didn’t critically assess the sources you posted.

          Probably because I was replying to a comment rather than writing an academic paper. I simply noted them to show there is substantial counter evidence that needs to be put in the balance.

          Then we can wait when you write the next, lenghty article and explain why Pacelli did not excommunicate the Germans in 1939 and did excommunicate the Communists in 1949.

          Yes. As I said. So you shoudn’t have stupidly misrepresented what I said as ‘I can’t explain why, but you are wrong’. I’m beginning to lose patience with you.

          I don’t think the support to Franco is irrelevant here.

          I didn’t say it was “irrelevant“. Stop doing that.

          You fail to assess the difference in context between when Hitler appeared able to subjugate Eurasia and was safely in command, and when it appeared that Stalin was about to do so.

          I don’t “fail” to do that at all. I simply consider the dubious evidence you’ve presented insufficient to support such a remarkable change of heart. As I’ve said several times. And there is a vast gulf between “he wished that Nazi Germany could be defeated without Soviet expansion but saw the latter as an inevitable if regrettable price to pay” (my assessment) and “he actively worked to prop up Germany, knowingly sacrificing millions of Jews in the process” (your claim). Your claim is not well supported and is totally unconvincing.

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          1. 1) I accept that the counter-evidence exists. What I was criticizing was your notion that when Germans wrote about the Pope’s attitude they were acting upon wishful thinking, whereas I did not see you consider the same possibility concerning the Allies.

            2) You said that ‘For now, suffice it to say that to characterise it as “he didn’t excommunicate the Nazis but did excommunicate communists because he preferred the former” is simplistic and largely wrong.’
            You claimed I am wrong, without providing evidence of *why* I am wrong. Do you like it better if I put it this way?

            3) Fair enough, you did not say that Franco is irrelevant. I think we can both agree that, even in the context of ‘historyforatheists’, it’s not bad to talk, at least in the comment section, about context. We don’t want people to get the wrong idea.

            4) You are misrepresenting my point. I never said that he ‘worked’ to prop Germany up. I said, and it’s a point of view that none of your sources comes to close to deny, that he would have preferred outcome A (that is, Germany does not collapse on the Eastern Front) over outcome B (that is, Germany does collapse on the Eastern Front). I never mentioned Pius having *acted* upon his preference.
            Again: the notion that if somebody thought something in 1941 concerning Hitler and Stalin then he must have thought the same in late 1943 is not the Occam’s Razor’s explanation, it’s an assumption which would require strong evidence in turn to be accepted, IN PARTICULAR IF THERE IS GERMAN EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THE OPPOSITE, and no contemporary evidence supporting it.

            You can not find my interpretation unconvincing, but we both know it’s not some sort of Jesus Mythicism level of ‘obviously wrong’ issue here.
            Also, I’m sorry if you are getting annoyed with me. I am trying to have a honest conversation (from which I have already learned quite a bit), and even if you end up banning me, which would not surprise me since I know your online persona, I’ll keep reading the blog with pleasure, and perhaps comment here and there (about excommunication too, maybe).

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          2. What I was criticizing was your notion that when Germans wrote about the Pope’s attitude they were acting upon wishful thinking, whereas I did not see you consider the same possibility concerning the Allies.

            I pretty clearly have considered that possibility. And factored that into my assessment.

            You claimed I am wrong, without providing evidence of *why* I am wrong.

            And I was quite clearly saying I was summarising a larger argument. So characterising it as me saying “I can’t explain why” was a pathetic misrepresentation.

            I never mentioned Pius having *acted* upon his preference.

            Then you’re making a point without weight. The Allies also would have preferred that Germany fell without the Soviets advancing their sphere into western Europe. So did lots of people. But if you admit that he didn’t act on that preference then how can you somehow sheet home blame for the death of Jews to him? That makes no sense.

            Also, I’m sorry if you are getting annoyed with me. I am trying to have a honest conversation (from which I have already learned quite a bit), and even if you end up banning me, which would not surprise me since I know your online persona, I’ll keep reading the blog with pleasure

            It takes quite a bit for me to ban someone. Obvious lunatics, evangelists who ignore warnings, clear trolls and people who repeatedly insult me or others are the only ones who go into the kill file. Misrepresenting what I say gets you a slap in the head, but you’d have to do it consistently to get banned. I think we’ve reached a point where we understand each other on this, even if we disagree somewhat. And I now need some sleep.

  15. 1) You wrote that ‘ i.e. people who didn’t have an incentive to paint Pius as pro-German – tell a very different story’. Even admitting that here you were not drawing a comparison unfavourable to the Germans by underlining these ‘others’ impartiality, I did not see you pondering or discussing how partial or impartial these people were.

    2) So the more correct phrasing would have been ‘I won’t explain why, but you are wrong’. Or perhaps ‘I won’t explain why (yet), but you are wrong.
    I hope you will forgive a foreigner for his less than perfect understanding of English. Some details still elude me. I’m looking forward for the next article, then.

    3) I never blamed Pius for the death of one single Jew. I claimed, and still claim, that it is possible, or likely, that Pius would have been perfectly fine with some hundreds of thousands of Jews dying in the concentration camps if that would also mean that the Soviets would not flood Eastern Europe. I don’t think that would also be true for the Western Allies’ leadership during the conflict, although certainly not because of moral reasons.
    I think it’s good here to underline that the point here isn’t that Pius would have preferred having Hitler defeated and the Soviets out of Europe; but that he would have accepted that bargain even knowing what its consequences would have been for Jews, Slavs, disabled, people political enemies of Nazism and homosexuals (not that he would have given two shits about the latter, of course).
    I also want to add that I didn’t make my claim so it could have ‘weight’. I think my initial post sufficiently underline what kind of person Pius was and what kind of institution it served. I added this (admitedly more controversial than I thought, and it’s good to know that, for more knowledge is always better than less) point about Pius’ hopes regarding the Eastern front simply because I feared that your (good, I repeat) article could, without appropriate context, make some people have a better opinion of the guy than he deserves.

    4) I am always for consensual slapping, so I might misrepresent your points a bit more when you had some sleep 🙂
    Thanks for the useful conversation and good night.

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    1. “I did not see you pondering or discussing how partial or impartial these people were.”

      The fact that you didn’t “see” this doesn’t mean it has not happened. Again, I’m responding to comments on a blog post, not writing an academic article.

      “perhaps ‘I won’t explain why (yet), but you are wrong.”

      Yes.

      I hope you will forgive a foreigner for his less than perfect understanding of English.

      Your English seems good enough and I think you actually understood me the first time.

      I never blamed Pius for the death of one single Jew. I claimed, and still claim, that it is possible, or likely, that Pius would have been perfectly fine with some hundreds of thousands of Jews dying in the concentration camps if that would also mean that the Soviets would not flood Eastern Europe.

      That is a remarkable piece of historical mind-reading based on flimsy evidence. Again, all the evidence indicates that he, like the Allies and many others, would have preferred the Soviets not to have effectively taken over half the continent, but saw it as a price to pay for the end of a regime that. among other things, killed millions of Jews. There is a huge gulf between that and some wild speculation that he would have been “perfectly fine” with the deaths of Jews if it prevented Soviet expansion. You can’t know that and you don’t know enough to conclude that.

        1. That isn’t anymore neutral as the historians he criticizes. In the end the method is the same as Ol’Hambo’s Biblical lens when interpreting fossils, ie apologetics. The crucial difference of course is that I don’t have any reason to doubt the integrity and honesty of the author.
          Nuanced it’s not. Downplaying it is.
          As usual I prefer the simple take: what were the interests of the RCC in the Spanish Civil War? Hardly the Republicans. The rest follows by itself, also when understanding the Pope’s congratulations.

          1. Frank, I certainly agree with your assesment that the rcc/ pius xii preferred the nationalists over the republicans. (Though the basque, Catholic, nationalists would surely disagree, but that is another topic

            However, the point here is that the situation is more complex than “pius supported Franco without any reservations at all”.

            For example, the post points out how pius called for Mercy on the defeated republicans and not some sort of blind retribution which was eventually what happened anyway.

            Pacelli also (as Tim stated in the main article) played an important role in the creation of the “Mit brennender sorge” document which was suppressed by the nationalist during the war.

          2. @Paul: my first point is that the author of the article you refer to never asks what the interests of the RCC in (and after) the Spanish Civil War (and WW-2) were. My second point is that that’s the crucial question. It’s easy to see how asking for mercy and contributing to “Mit brennender Sorge” was totally in the interest of the RCC (as the pope saw it, of course).
            As a result, I repeat, the author isn’t any more neutral than the historians he criticizes. It’s telling that you prefer to neglect that. Apparently you think a moral judgment more important than an attempt to understand why the pope did what he did. Instead the latter is my priority. As a result I find that so called “more nuanced take” overall about as useless as the “Hitler’s/Franco’s pope” lens.
            If that’s not your point – and nothing in your answer suggests it is – your hammer misses the nail that matters.

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  16. Nice article, Tim.

    I’m a layman at this specialization of modern history, but i always think Hitler’s views is a bit eccentric, more like a Nationalistic Theism combined with ‘aryan glory’ that seemed to be a popular rhetoric at that time. Your article seemed to confirm my views if i read it correct.

    I think his views has similarities to the Indonesia’s Soeharto.

    He was a nominal muslim, but his views is basically a ‘Nationalistic Monotheism’, demanding devotion to National Symbols (Flags, National icon, constitution, etc) over personal faith. His loyalists now even go as far to say that they’d go to hell defending their nation.

    I think some scholars connect his beliefs to the Japanese Nationalism contemporary with Hitler, so Hitler probably wasn’t alone in his eccentric views. What do you think?

  17. A nice article, do you by any chance know if it’s true that the Nazis tried sto remove any Christian associations from Christmas? I’ve seen Tom Holland tweet about it

      1. Thanks for the answer.
        On a side note, American propaganda from the war seems to portray some conflict between Nazism and Christianity as well. The movie Education for Death, made by Disney, portrays the growing up of a young German boy. At the end, we see the Bible being replaced by Mein Kampf and a crucifix by a sword.

        1. And at the 75th Anniversary of D-Day this week there was a reading (by that idiot Trump, of all people) of Roosevelt’s letter to the troops where he refers to the war as “a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization”. The Allies were keen to depict the war as a fight for Christianity.

          1. They were indeed, and with some amusing implications, too. Davies, Ambassador in Moscow, took a lot of pain in describing how and why Stalin’s USSR was a natural ally of the US because, despite superficial atheism, it was also egualitarian and hence Christian in spirit; therefore the war could be depicted as a Crusade.
            Not that the Axis countries did not do that as well: in Fascist Italy plenty of the clergy blessed the soldiers leaving to the Eastern Front as crusaders against godless communism; and the Americans and the British were depicted by the propaganda as anti-christian in their materialism and plutocracy. There is also a quite interesting stream of Fascist Italian propaganda associating anglicans with jews as saboteurs of Catholic universalism and hence cause of the war.
            And of course, if you want an example of christianity weaponized for genocide, check out the Legion of Archangel Michael (or Iron Guard) in Romania.

  18. Tim, would you agree to the claim that the german churches easily could have stopped the holocaust if they really had wanted to as some new atheists on the internet have claimed?

    1. The evidence on that is very mixed. Defenders of Pius note that the Dutch bishops were far more outspoken than most on the deportation of Jews and in response the Nazis increased the round up of Dutch Jews and sped up the deportations. This was noted in the Vatican and does seem to have helped shape the Vatican’s approach of low key local action rather than grand speeches and gestures. On the other hand, others point out that concerted protest by Catholics could have an effect in Nazi Germany. For example, when in 1936, Nazis removed crucifixes in Catholic schools, protest by Bishop Galen of Munster led to public demonstrations and a back down by the Nazis. Galen was also one of the most outspoken of the bishops over the Nazis’ euthanasia program, in which intellectually and physically disabled people were murdered. Despite huge pressure to be silent and a desire by leading Nazis that he be hanged, Galen spoke out against the program and inspired many doctors and medical staff to oppose it or to covertly ignore orders to carry it out. The pressure was great enough that Hitler backed down and the program was quietly wound back from 1941. Pius XII issued the encyclical Mystici corporis Christi in 1943 explicitly condemning eugenics and making a fairly clear reference to the Nazi program:

      “We deem it necessary to reiterate this grave statement today, when to our profound grief we see at times the deformed, the insane, and those suffering from hereditary disease deprived of their lives, as though they were a useless burden to Society; and this procedure is hailed by some as a manifestation of human progress, and as something that is entirely in accordance with the common good. Yet who that is possessed of sound judgement does not recognise that this not only violates the natural and the divine law written in the heart of every man, but that it outrages the noblest instincts of humanity?”

      The relative success of these protests in at least reducing the program (some euthanasia killings continued, but not on the previous systematic scale) leads some to argue that similar open condemnation would have stopped the Holocaust as well. This is possible, but counterfactuals can be constructed in a variety of ways. Would protests over Jews have caused the same public disquiet as removing crosses in local schools or the murder of the disabled? Were the Nazis as ideologically committed to their eugenics idea as they were to their anti-Semitism, which was a core motivating belief in the Party? It really is hard to say.

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      1. ‘Were the Nazis as ideologically committed to their eugenics idea as they were to their anti-Semitism, which was a core motivating belief in the Party?’

        I think that the Rosenstrasse protest shows how the Nazis could even back down if killing Jews was at stake. And eugenics, as in ‘the selective breeding of an increasingly better race of Germans’ was one core motivating belief of Nazi ideology too.

        Still, perhaps the Nazis could back down in isolated cases, but would not tolerate a continous and overwhelming opposition to their projects on the long run.

    2. I’d say no. Hitler had totally made clear in Mein Kampf that he wanted to remove all jews from German society. As such he stood in an old German – and European – tradition. Most or at least many European citizens supported it or quietly approved. Up to 1939 this would have enabled the NSDAP to neglect clergy protesting against discrimination; then the war became the hottest priority.
      However as the Kristallnacht showed using violence was another matter. That didn’t sit well with the German population. The nazis learned a crucial lesson. When they decided to exterminate all European jews at some point in 1941 they kept the program under the radar, enabling everyone to look away.
      The Netherlands, with Denmark, were atypical. Sure there was Dutch antisemitism, but the attitude was something like “keep your filthy hands from our filthy jews”. The result was ao the famous February Strike in 1941, organized by the communists when Hitler and Stalin still were buddies (!). However the Netherlands were small and the strike was not national. Hence it’s impossible to extrapolate. The same for cardinal De Jong.
      Ian Kershaw in The End mentions that the nazis kept track of public opinion (some department of the SD), so Hitler could be influenced. My conclusion is that the Holocaust only could have been stopped by huge protests of especially the German population. There never was a chance and a firm stance of German clergy wouldn’t have altered it. See, despite that noble strike other Dutch prominents (Nederlandse Unie – Dutch Union; one – catholic! – member became prime minister after the war) more or less collaborated with the nazis. European society was what it was and suggesting that German clergy could have made such a huge difference can nothing be but wishful thinking, especially in 1941.
      Still imo this isn’t an excuse for the indifferent attitude of many authorities, whether religious or not. The German churches can be blamed (and so can civil servants, political parties etc., also non-German ones), but critics should not exaggerate.

  19. Tim, is it true that pope pius ix (that you mention in your article)outright condemned democracy in the papal bull called “syllabus of errors”?

    1. The Syllabus does not condemn ‘democracy’. But itdoes condemn freedom of speech, the lack of a State religion, and, to quote it: ‘progress, liberalism, and modern civilisation’.

  20. Nice job. I’d have brought up what happened in Holland but you covered it in the comments. Off topic a bit but I’d like to see a ‘perceived’ in front of “humiliation of the Treaty of Versailles”. Ludendorff knew the jig was up by the end of summer in 1918 and handed over responsibility to the civilian power precisely so he could absolve the army of blame, allowing the birth of the destructive Dolchstoßlegende. It suited both sides to pretend that Versailles was some sort of unparalleled harsh treaty but that simply doesn’t stack up. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was far more punitive and The French indemnity paid after their defeat in the Franco Prussian war was at least as onerous. Ultra-nationalists in Germany would have moaned no matter what the terms. It’s a bit of a hobby horse of mine since the “harsh” treaty idea is another historical zombie that won’t die. We all learned about it at school but the historiography has moved on. The Myths of Reparations by Sally Marks is good if you can get beyond the paywall.

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    1. That the Frankfurt treaty of 1871 and the Brest-Litovsk treaty of 1917 were harsh doesn’t mean the Versailles-Treaty of 1918 wasn’t. That the allies within ten years or so adopted a softer attitude has been known for decades. That the instability of the Weimar Republic has many causes has been known for decades as well. The social-democrats under leadership of Friedrich Ebert using proto-fascist militia consisting of fresh veterans to finish off the Spartacus-revolution, well before the Versailles-treaty was signed, is one of them.
      So your criticism is rather pointless.

      “We all learned about it at school ”
      Perhaps you. Not me, 40 years ago.

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    2. While what FrankB writes concerning the harshness is true – they can all be harsh – I think the harshness of Brest-Litovsk should not so easily be compared with Versailles in any case.

      The German Empire at the time was not someone expected to be a decent winner offering generous peace, alas (I’m German). Still, it is a fact that the world has not seen what the peace it had originally wanted would have looked like. What did happen was that they went to negotiations and the Russian Communists talked about their political theory and how an ideal world would look like in their eyes, which both pleased them and was stalling tactics (apparently they hoped for a revolution in the Entente countries or something). One of the German participants remarked: “You are talking as if you were the winners and we the vanquished; may I remind you that the situation is the other way round.” – The Soviets didn’t think the Germans would resume the war after the truce; but they, having got enough, did so: what *then* followed was the harsh treaty of Brest-Litovsk.

      The really nasty thing the Germans did in the East was not so much a harsh peace after that, but to send Lenin in in the first place.

      On the harshness of Versailles: An insightful German authors, like Sebastian Haffner, has commented that Versailles actually left Germany in a geopolitically favorable position, as the natural dominant power of Central Europe. But it is rather obvious that it was intended and perceived as an insult; and in any case, the Germans were outraged about chiefly one thing and then perhaps another.

      The one thing was that they had to sign the article “the German Empire and its allies are solely guilty for the war” (they had actually tried in vain to sign all the rest but not that, if I remember correctly). The perhaps other thing was that they couldn’t unite with Austria if both wanted to. It is quite understandable that the enemies wouldn’t want to make the loser even more powerful as a result of his loss, of course; but for a German, having to plead guilty after having firmly believed that all had their share, and then seeing that the other side does hold up a theory of popular sovereingy but then refuses to play by their own rule when it comes to the enemy – these were hard to bear. The money and the territorial losses was a marginal issue; I mean outrage-wise (the money did place its part in the terrible inflation later, but that’s another story).

  21. Excellent article, and a pleasure to read. Thank you.

    Two questions:

    1) Any ballpark estimates of when you believe you might be posting the follow-up piece regarding Pius and the Holocaust? I can certainly see how you may want a break or to shift gears for a while, but am just curious. Most especially, wondering if you think it may come before the release of Vatican papers which last I checked is estimated to take place in March of next year (though these things have a way of being pushed back);

    2) Any thought or comments regarding the supposed plot by Hitler to kidnap Pius and imprison him in Northern Italy? As far as I can tell evidence to support it is sketchy at best, but I wanted to know what you might have found regarding it.

    Thanks again.

    1. 1) It will be some time – I need a break from this topic.

      2) That one is hard to assess. My feeling is that it was at least discussed.

  22. “No doubt there would have been Christians among the ranks of the SS but how in their capacity as death camp guards or being members of the Einsatzgruppen (for example) they squared their Christian faith with a daily dose of murdering innocent men, women and children is beyond me.”

    That seems to be an unfortunate trait that rears it’s ugly head in Christianity ( and all religions and ideologies generally speaking). Some individuals find it more important to claim membership in these views then to follow the teachings of these views. It is more important to believe it then to follow it.

    Jesus spoke against this a long time ago

    Look up Matthew 23

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    1. You seem to be implying that ‘the teachings of Christianity’ necessarily mean tolerance and ‘being good’. It’s more complex than that, and plenty of people who were honest and sincere Christians were also murderous bastards. Yesterday and today.

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      1. Did I say that at all?? I simply pointed out that people throughout history have been more concerned with being affiliated with various views then following them. It’s kinda hard though in my book to follow the teachings of Jesus and be a member of the SS. You know that ancient Jewish Rabbi that taught a message of salvation to Jews.

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        1. In your book. Your book isn’t ‘Christianity’. Basically, you are playing the ‘No True Scotsman’ fallacy.

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        2. In other readings of the New Testament – common in Germany – “replacement theology” held that the Jews had killed Jesus. And therefore, God was favoring the new Christians over Judaism.

          This antisemitic theology existed in elements of both Catholic and Protestant churches. Particularly in heavily-Catholic southern Germany. Where Hitler got his start .

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          1. Except that in 19th Century Europe theological antisemitism became largely replaced by pseudoscientific antisemitism.
            Hitler became member of the DAP.
            One founding father of the DAP was Karl Harrer, who was member of the Thule Society.
            One founding father of the Thule Society was Rudolf von Sebottendorf, who was involved with theosofian Helena Blavatsky.
            In the same way nazism can be traced back to all kind of esoteric and nationalistic societies of the 19th and early 20th Century. The influence of Houston Stewart Chamberlain for instance is well known.
            None of these people had much to do with (German or otherwise) protestant or catholic churches.
            This is not meant to let the European churches off the hook (for instance the Russian Orthodox Church is not exactly free from blame either, stimulating Russian pogroms). I don’t even agree with ToN’s “Hitler was not a christian”. But there never was a direct influence of any church on the NSDAP and on Hitler. How could it be, the nazis were totalitarian and hence automatically opposed any other centre of power.
            Plus indirect influence is bad enough. Antisemitism is an old European tradition, for centuries fueled by christian authorities. Via the switch from theology to pseudobiology Hitler stood in the same tradition.

            Like I wrote in my first comment “where Hitler got his start ” is a pretty stupid and lazy strategy. What’s more, it can easily be improved, beginning with picking better examples.
            Also you should realized that Pol Pot and Ieng Sary became atheists when studying in Paris. That’s where they got their start. So if christianity is to be blamed for the Holocaust then atheism for the Killing Fields of Cambodja. Everything else is special pleading and hence in my eyes as stupid as creationism.

          2. My remarks written with my right thumb in a blog com box are necessarily shorthand. But I’d invite you to think not only in terms of immediate sources for Nazis, but also the longterm cultural contexts and origins as well.

  23. FrankB:

    You make a good point but for, I think, this:
    ‘How could it be, the nazis were totalitarian and hence automatically opposed any other centre of power.’

    While it is true that, on the long run, totalitarianism and Churches have different goals, it is certainly not true that totalitarians are ‘automatically opposed’ to any other centre of power. Mussolini’s relationship with the Catholic Church, at times critical but generally positive and benefiting both sides, proves that totalitarian governments can and will get along with churches and weaponise them for their own goals, and vice versa.

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    1. Sometimes. In fact The Church and the Italian fascist chief Mussolini signed a mural nonaggression pact around 1929; the “Lateran treaty” (SP?).

      So rather than calling the pope “Hitler’s pope,” it night have been more accurate to call him “The Fascists’ Pope.” From the Lateran treaty on, the Pope and the Fascist dictator often lived together quite comfortably in the same town: Rome.

      Years later, there were prominent Spanish fascist members in the lay-priestly Catholic organization Opus Dei. Some of them were in Franco’s cabinet.

      1. it night have been more accurate to call him “The Fascists’ Pope.”

        Ummm, no. Papal relations with Mussolini were not as bad as they were with Hitler, but they were far from friendly.

        ” From the Lateran treaty on, the Pope and the Fascist dictator often lived together quite comfortably in the same town: Rome.”

        They got distinctly uncomfortable at several points. In 1943 there were raids on Church properties by Fascists and police who were Fascist supporters, looking for Jewish fugitives from the Germans. These led to an escalation of tension between the Vatican and the Fascists, which had been rising since the Nazi occupation. At one point these boiled over into an open confrontation where a large force of Fascists marched on the Vatican. Pius XII ordered the doors of St Peters to be closed, locked and barred in daylight for the first time in centuries and turned out both the Swiss Guard and the Palatine Guard militia. These forces stood toe to toe with the Fascists until it was the German commander, General Kesselring, who convinced the Fascists to stand down. So no, the relations were not “comfortable” at all. The Papacy had less conflict with the Fascists, because they did not adopt the openly anti-Church policies of the Nazis. But to pretend they were friendly is another distortion of history.

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        1. But for years they did live together. That’s why I only noted they “often” got along.

          Often – but not always. Particularly not toward the end. When the Church saw Nazism and fascism were going to lose the war. And as, to be sure, differences between these former treaty signers were finally becoming more apparent.

          1. More nonsense. All the evidence shows they had a tense relationship with Mussolini’s regime from the start and it turned more hostile long before the War even began and long, long before “the Church saw Nazism and fascism were going to lose the war”. Stop cluttering up the comments with this ahistorical garbage. Go away.

          2. The Church and its historians and apologists of course want to huge emphasize any differences with fascism. And it hates to mention major agreements Like the Lateran treaty. No less.

            Stop buying apologist historians. In spite of conflicts, the major acts of cooperation were huge: 1) the Treaty. And 2) no effective Catholic rebellion after that.

            Your own major example of conflict is 1943. Just before the Italian collapse.

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          3. I’m not paying any attention at all to “apologists” and I have no idea who these “apologist historians” might be. Apologists exaggerate the level of Church opposition to Mussolini just as people like you exaggerate the level of friendliness towards him. The answer, as usual, is complex and lies between those two extremes. The “treaty” was much like the Reichskonkordat – a way of finding a way to preserve the Church in the face of a regime led by a man whose nickname had been “the Priest Eater” and whose thugs had specialised in anti-clerical violence. And, like Hitler, Mussolini worked to try to use the Church to his advantage, with very limited success. There was no “Catholic rebellion” because the Papacy in this period saw itself as above mere politics and stuck to criticising any and all regimes on matters of doctrine. So Mussolini’s regime was repeatedly criticised for its racist policies and its elevation of the State to a quasi-religious level.

            And that was one example of conflict. If you bothered to educate yourself properly you would find many more, many of which pre-date the War.

          4. What really puzzles me – why do anti-apologists stick to ambiguous examples if there are so many unambiguous ones? I repeat: Slovakian president and catholic priest Jozef Tiso; also chief guard of extermination camp Jasenovac and Franciscan friar Miroslav Filipovic. To them we can add some mala fide semifascist regimes. I mention Caudillo Francisco Franco (cordial relations with Opus Dei) and JR Videla’s junta. However in other South- and Central Americans prominent RCC clergy actively opposed similar regimes (those of Pinochet and Stroessner; also remember archbishop Oscar Romero).
            In a way these contrasts are unsurprising. The RCC claims to be universal and hence harbours people with completely opposite views on all kinds of matters. For every catholic war criminal you’ll find a catholic resistance hero and the other way round. This makes discussions like this one so pointless.
            Still too many critics of the RCC enjoy beating this dead horse. They only need to look around to find a fresh one they can ride. Maybe they are too lazy to do some actual research iso parrotting easy but incorrect catchphrases?
            Call me mean; I think it stupid.

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          5. A few recent comments have gone to the trashcan. Keep things on topic please – the Papacy and the Nazis.

  24. Excellent article Tim, I apologize for being late for commentary on this. I’ve studied a lot about the religious policies of the classical totalitarian regimes, most notably those of the French Revolution, Nazi Germany, and the Communist states. I absolutely loved Mark Riebling’s excellent work on the wartime Pontiff’s spywork for the German Resistance and the Western Allies: “Church of Spies: The Pope’s Secret War Against Hitler”. I read that book like three times during late 2015 and 2016.

    I plan to read Riebling’s other writing sometime soon, has nothing to do with religion: “Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA”. I can’t wait until next year, that’s when the Vatican is going to give a full release of all the archives relating to Pope Pius 12th. I definitely don’t think he was pro-Nazi, but a lot of people have been going on about “full access to the archives”. So, there’s that to look forward to!

    1. No, that guy is not Godfrey (Godfrey gets very prissy about abuse and expletives and so would not say “go fuck yourself”). That weird guy liked some early stuff I wrote here but then reacted vehemently against the idea that perhaps Pius XII was not anti-Semitic, even though he hadn’t actually listened to what I said in the podcast in question and even refused to do so. He just somehow knew what I had said was wrong, despite … not listening to what I said. Another irrational “rationalist”, in other words.

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  25. It seems so easy for people to judge those who had to survive the Nazi’s from their safe seat in the 21st century! Many people like the Pope and so many others, had to be concerned for their lives as well as those they were responsible for! It was so refreshing to read an article that presents the facts. It is hard to find anything to read nowadays that doesn’t have an ax to grind and then, you are left trying to read between the lines to determine what is fact! Great Article! Thank you!

  26. I love your stuff Tim. Can I ask about the ratlines? I hear on places like Reddit that the Catholic Church helped Nazis escape to Argentina. Or was it individual clergymen who helped?

    1. There is an often repeated but lazy claim that “the Vatican” helped Nazi and other fascist war criminals escape. The fact is that individual clergy – mainly the German Bishop Alois Hudal and Croat priest Krunoslav Draganovic – who had sympathy for their countrymen and thought they were being unfairly punished for being on the losing side in a war. They made use of some of the Catholic aid agencies and Pontifical Commission for Assistance (PCA), which were working to assist the millions of refugees in Europe in the immediate post war years. The claim that this was some “Vatican” operation is fantasy and both Hudal and Draganovic acted on their own initiative and both were not exactly favoured by the Pope anyway. Hudal in particular hated Pius XII and worked to slander him at every opportunity after the War, mainly because his previously high flying Vatican career was ended by Pius precisely because of his sympathy for the Nazis.

      It’s interesting that the actions of clergy to save Jews are dismissed as the “work of individuals”, despite plenty of evidence that this had the encouragement of the Vatican. Whereas the actions of a few like Hudal and Draganovic get portrayed as “a Vatican program” when it is clear that they were acting on their own.

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      1. While granting that Hudal might have personally disliked Pacelli, and that there were quite a lot of conflict between the two, do remember that it was Pius who put him in the place to do what he did in the first place.

        Overall I find Tims approach to the “Hitler’s pope” myth to be quite flawed. One can grant that he personally disliked Hitler and hated parts of his ideology, while still acknowledging that he did little to help the jews and hated communism more than nazism (as Jacopo has already pointed out more than a year ago)

        See for example, this excellent article that refutes a lot of the stuff that Tim states in his article and in the comments below: https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1158&context=honors

        (If you are interested in the ratlines, go to page 51 of the paper)

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        1. “do remember that it was Pius who put him in the place to do what he did in the first place.”

          We can’t “remember” something that is dead wrong. Hudal was appointed to the rectorship of the College of Santa Maria dell’Anima in 1923 by Pius XI, not by Pius XII. Then in 1937 his formerly rapid rise in the Vatican was halted because of his perceived endorsement of Nazism. He was sidelined from then on at the advice of Pacelli and his resentment against Pacelli began at this point. This was all before Pacelli even became Pope. You don’t seem to have a grasp of the basic facts, so your interpretation is obviously going to be badly warped.

          “Overall I find Tims approach to the “Hitler’s pope” myth to be quite flawed.”

          Given that you don’t even know the basic facts, this assessment counts for nothing much.

          ” One can grant that he personally disliked Hitler and hated parts of his ideology, while still acknowledging that he did little to help the jews and hated communism more than nazism”

          He condemned the Nazi ideology from the very beginning and did not hate just “parts” of the Nazi ideology, but all of it. He also participated in several plots to overthrow and even kill Hitler. Clearly something more than a bit of “dislike” was in play here. I note that it can be argued that he could have done more to help the Jews, but to say he did “little” is simply wrong. And he is on the record as stating that Nazism was “much worse” than Communism. Again, you don’t seem to know the basics.

          “See for example, this excellent article that refutes a lot of the stuff that Tim states “

          That “excellent article” is some student’s essay. And in just reading the parts about Hudal, I found several quite glaring errors of fact. It seems to be where you got the completely erroneous idea that Pius XII appointed Hudal to some kind of position, for example, which is simply wrong. The kid who wrote that little essay says this happened “presumably” and is wrong in her assumption. She made a basic error and simply didn’t do her research properly. It is also written in a awkwardly juvenile style and the writer has a clear and rather biased agenda. The argument is peppered with claims about what is “likely”, backed by not much and contradicted by evidence that she either ignored or was not aware of. If that weak, badly argued and poorly researched undergraduate effort is the best you can come up with, I suggest you go do some proper reading by actual historians, not amateurish essays by some college kid.

          “If you are interested in the ratlines, go to page 51 of the paper”

          Yes, where that kid’s argument is basically “they must have known what was going on, because I say so”. Hudal was not operating as part of the Pontificia Commissione di Assistenza, as that kid seems to think, so her whole argument collapses right there. She doesn’t have a clue. Go do some proper homework.

          1. Yes, looking back at what I wrote, I screwed up bad. Sorry.

            Just a quick little question before I go to my little corner of shame though (and read some books on the subject) – Do you have any information about the attempted concordat with the Soviet union that pius xi supposedly authorised? I looked around for it on the internet and found nothing.

            I don’t doubt that it’s true, however it would be useful to have access to it in order to argue against the claim that the vatican preferred Nazism over communism etc.

    2. I am miffed by the pairing of Nazis and Argentina – when in fact there were a lot of Nazis who went to the United States and URSS who took advantage of their scientific knowledge. (Hint, who was Werner von Brun?)

      This is part of the propaganda against Peron who governed against the interests of Great Britain, who wanted him overthrown, just as they overthrew Mossadegh in Iran (and now we are paying for it)

      For the record Peron was not a Nazi nor racist. Once when asked about the “Jewish problem” his answer was “The solution is to turn Jews into Argentines”

      (Argentina is one country where representatives of the Jewish Community and the Muslim Community go to the same political meeting to cheer the same candidate)

      1. No, but Peron didn’t have any problem with antisemites either, like his minister Sebastian Peralta. That he objected the Nürnberg trials, as I read, requires confirmation. Not to defend the Soviet-Union or the USA, but Peron went several steps further.

  27. Good stuff.

    The Complex relationship between Mussolini and the Vatican deserves a similar break down. In the beginning he was as Anti-Catholic as Hitler, but Italy being majority Catholic meant he had to compromise where Hitler didn’t have to.

    1. Maybe such a breakdown would be useful, but New Atheists don’t use Mussolini and the Fascists as a rhetorical weapon the way they use Hitler and the Nazis. This blog is not about history generally, but correcting New Atheist bad history specifically.

      1. How on topic you consider it to discus notirous Catholic who opposed the Nazis but weren’t actually Clergy? Like Otto Von Habsburg, or the pretenders to Bavaria and Saxony? And the Bonaparte heir of the time actually joined the French Foreign Legion under a pseudonym to help fight the Nazis.

        Meanwhile the Lutheran Prussian royal family’s altitudes ranged from conflicted to full blown party members.

        1. I don’t know why I have to keep explaining this to you, but the topic of this blog is New Atheist misuses of history. That’s all. So unless those things are somehow misused or misrepresented by New Atheists in their arguments, they are not on topic for this blog. This really isn’t hard to understand.

  28. Dear Tim,

    just to let you know that there appear to be two slips in the text:

    -There is a typo “SDP” when the party’s name was and is “SPD”

    -When you write “Hitler’s vague promises of compromises with the Church and hints at a concordat convinced Papen, who swung the Centre’s fateful vote. “, I take it that actually meant KAAS. It was he – the party chairman – who got guarantees from Hitler and who swung the vote. PAPEN by that time had been expelled from the Centre Party and was universally hated by Centre Party politicians as a traitor for his role in ousting Brüning as Chancellor.

    1. There is a typo “SDP” when the party’s name was and is “SPD”

      Fixed. Thanks for noting this and the other typos you have pointed out to me.

      “When you write “Hitler’s vague promises of compromises with the Church and hints at a concordat convinced Papen, who swung the Centre’s fateful vote. “, I take it that actually meant KAAS. “

      No, I mean Papen. He acted as a go-between with the Nazis and Kaas, assuring Kaas that Hitler would protect the Church on the basis of some (fairly vague) promises made to him by Hitler.

  29. I may have missed if you have addressed this issue or wanted to, but the excommunication of communists in 1948 or 9, by Pius XII and a non-excommunication of Nazis by Pacelli/Pius can be reconciled. I am going from memory quickly, but here are some facts:

    — the Nazis WERE excommunicated when an outlier party in Weimar by the GERMAN hierarchy because local bishops tend to do excommunications. This was lifted as part of a deal I think in election time, and New Atheists may not mention this much even though it is point for them because it requires pointing out that the Catholic Church in Germany DID excommunicated Nazis.
    — When Pope Pius excommunicated communists in late 1940s he was acting as a local cleric in Italy and it was a clear political gesture aimed at influencing a local election. His excommunication I think only extended to those who voted communist.

    In both cases, they were local clerics making points in local elections. Also I do believe there was a policy of not excommunicating or banning books by heads of state. Thus Nazi Rosenberg’s ideological book was banned but not Hitler’s Mein Kampf.

    The Vatican had excommunicated Napoleon and the Italian monarchs after the unification of Italy and the end of the Papal States. They learned that that did no good — Napoleon kidnapped the Pope I believe and the Kingdom of Italy did not budge but left the Vatican stateless until the Lateran Treaty.

    1. All good points. I could have expanded on the section on the excommunication option, much as I could have written more on several other relevant issues. But this was a long article and if I had gone into sufficient detail on everything it would have turned into the draft of a book. Thanks for your comments – very useful.

      1. I must confess, I was partly in error. Pius XII excommunication of communists was universal though I think timed to influence an Italian election. One could also argue that at the beginning of the Cold War he had learned from WWII the value of early excommunication of anti-church and totalitarina ideologues.

  30. Trying to keep this on topic —
    You may want to consider a mini-post some day regarding Pope Benedict XVI’s experience in the Hitler Youth. It’s my understanding that his father was in fact a bitter anti-Nazi resulting in harassment to the family. He also had a cousin with Down Syndrome who was taken away for “therapy” and presumably exterminated in the Nazis’ eugenics program. While not a fan of Benedict in so many ways myself, I always considered accusations of “the Pope is a Nazi” to be quite cruel and unfair.

    1. I too am no fan of Ratzinger, but calling him a Nazi is absurd. He avoided joining the Hitler Youth for as long as he could and only did so when it became compulsory because he knew not doing so would bring more official harassment onto his anti-Nazi father. I’m not sure that’s worth a whole article though.

  31. In your review of Holland’s book you wrote:

    “their doctrine of mercilessness was patently and knowingly anti-Christian”
    Agreed; what’s more, this is an interesting definition.
    Maarten Luther was equally merciless in his Von den Juden und Ihren Lügen – in equally stark contrast to Tolkien’s behaviour (see the Holland revew).
    Jehan Calvin was equally merciless in his attitude to witches.
    So I conclude they were not christians either. I like that, because I wonder: how many people who called themselves christians are disqualified by the criterium of mericlessness last 2000 years?

  32. Tim, have you got some kind of access to the recently opened archives of Pius XII? (if I’m not wrong, I think all the documents have been digitalized)

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    1. No, only a few selected documents have been made available digitally. The vast bulk of them are only available to historians who get permission to gain access to the archives. That began in March, with all of the allocated places for researchers booked well in advance, though the access to the documents has been complicated by the Coronovirus pandemic. That aside, the process of analysis of the documents will take years. I’ll leave that analysis to the professional historians, though, as I say in my article above, I suspect both Pius’ defenders and his detractors will find material to support their respective views.

  33. By the way, I think a really interesting topic to cover in a future article would be the myths that surround the catholic Inquisition. After investigating the topic, I found there are quite a few.

    1. About the Inquisition – at least the Spanish Inquisition -when you read about the death and devastation that followed the Reformation (like the Thirty Years War), one wonders if the Inquisition, by keeping Spain from the contagion was actually a benevolent institution.

      No, tortures and burning people at the stake are NOT OK. But when the alternative are Wars of Religion, they become acceptable.

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      1. That didn’t work in the beginning of the Eighty Years war, when this still just was a protest against the Habsburg monarchy and not an independence war yet. The Spanish Inquisition escalated the conflict. One could even argue that The Netherlands became a safer country when the Spanish Inquisition was driven out and the conflict became a regular war.

  34. “John Cornwell, whose publication of Hitler’s Pope in 1999 brought the criticism of Pius XII more fully into the public arena and who was effectively the key source of Hitchens’ distorted polemics, has since backtracked on many of his arguments. ”

    Can you point me to where he’s recorded as backtracking? Not doubting you but got into a stupid argument with a Hitler’s Pope defender and am unable to find them as the results just get swamped by Hitler’s Pope.

    1. “I would now argue, in the light of the debates and evidence following Hitler’s Pope, that Pius XII had so little scope of action that it is impossible to judge the motives for his silence during the war, while Rome was under the heel of Mussolini and later occupied by the Germans… But even if his prevarications and silences were performed with the best of intentions, he had an obligation in the postwar period to explain those actions.”(Cornwell, The Pontiff in Winter, p. 193)

      “While I believe with many commentators that the pope might have done more to help the plight of the Jews, I now feel, 10 years after the publication of my book, that his scope for action was severely limited and I am prepared to state this…. Nevertheless, due to his ineffectual and diplomatic language in respect of the Nazis and the Jews, I still believe that it was incumbent on him to explain his failure to speak out after the war. This he never did.” (Cornwell, in an interview in The Bulletin, Philadelphia, 27 September 2008).

  35. Hello, loved the article. This “Hitler’s pope” myth does say also that the Church never helped any jews? And do you have any references about this topic?

    1. The controversy surrounding the Papacy and the Holocaust is a related but separate issue to the ones discussed above.The claim that Pius did “nothing” or “little” to assist Jews is sometimes made as part of the “Hitler’s Pope” idea among atheists. That isn’t true, though there is a genuine question as to whether more could have been done. Ronald J. Rychlak’s Hitler, the War, and the Pope goes into the evidence for Papal assistance to Jews in the War in some detail.

  36. I have a professor (who I actually like) who has bothered me for quite a while by telling my class of undergraduates multiple times that “the Nazis were Christian” and “Christian was in their name.”

    I haven’t been able to find references the the latter claim and the former claim is more complicated than that (it wasn’t one blanket ideology) but she never provided me with more evidence for her claims and just doubled down in class. Is there evidence for (especially) her latter claim? I don’t know how to take it up with her, but it bothers me that as a religious studies professor she is telling undergraduates things which are potentially untrue.

    1. “Is there evidence for (especially) her latter claim?”

      Her latter claim is total nonsense. The word “Nazi” is a contraction of the German name of Hitler’s party – the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or “National Socialist German Workers Party”. There is no mention of “Christian” there, so on that one she is dead wrong. There were parties with “Christian” in their name in pre-Nazi Germany, like the Christlichsoziale Arbeiterpartei (Christian Social Workers Party), but they had nothing to do with the Nazis.

      “The Nazis were Christian” is slightly more correct, but misleading. Germany in 1933 was overwhelmingly Christian, with those Christians being around 67% Protestant and 33% Catholic. Other faiths, including Jews, accounted for just 3-6% of the population. So, obviously, the majority of the rank and file of the Nazi Party were also Christians. But the Nazi ideology was largely contrary to Christian teachings on many key points and had an anti-Christian policy agenda that became more overt as time went on. This was driven from the top, with Himmler, Goebbels and Bormann in particular being vehemently anti-Christian. Hitler was also of the belief that Christianity was a moribund faith that would gradually die out and was stridently anti-clerical. But he was aware that the population was still substantially Christian and would only tolerate so much anti-religious propaganda and action.

      So from 1920 -1933 as he came to power he paid lip service to Christianity; making carefully-worded public pronouncements that pandered to Christian sympathies. Once in power he saw these platitudes as less necessary and his policies became more overly anti-Christian, but he couched them as attacks on “politically militant” clergy and on Church corruption. The Nazis also tried to foster what was called “Positive Christianity”, which was a kind of state sponsored Reichskirche (Reich Church) with a theology more in keeping with Nazi ideology, though this experiment never really worked. Overall the Nazis mainly worked to keep the churches suitably compliant or acceptably submissive while harassing, arresting and occasionally beating and killing more outspoken clergy.

      The fact that the Wehrmacht went into battle with “Gott mit uns” (God with Us) on their belts or the Nazis used the slogan “Kinder, Küche, Kirche” (Children, Kitchen, Church”) to describe the role of German women are often held up as evidence of an essential role of Christianity in Nazi ideology, but both these things are holdovers from the earlier German Imperial era and are more signs that the Nazi movement was (of course) highly conservative. Actual Nazi slogans had no religious elements.

      So while many members of the Nazi Party were Christians and found ways to reconcile their faith with their politics, the Nazi ideology was not Christian and, in many ways, was in conflict with Christian theology. Hitler and his leaders worked to avoid inflaming too much conflict in the minds of their Christian population, but in private Hitler often spoke of more vigorous anti-Christian action once the War was over. What form that would have taken is hard to tell, but the anti-Christian ideologues in his inner circle were dominant in the last days of the Reich, particularly Bormann, so it is likely to have been extensive.

    2. @ALLmC: “the Nazis were Christian”
      Once again I more or less disagree with ToN, but now on the other side . This is not just “slightly more correct, but misleading”, it’s simply false.
      Martin Bormann, one of the four most powerful nazis during WW2 direcly after Hitler, was totally anti religion.

      https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism/Varieties-of-fascism

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bormann

      Whether we should call Bormann an atheist or a weird, perverted deist doesn’t interest me that much, though I think the first. A christian he definitely was not.
      AfaIk Joseph Goebbels, the other vehement anti-clergy (both protestant and catholic) nazi-leader never expressed himself about his beliefs. Unlike Hitler he never said anything positive about Jesus, so it’s impossible to consider him a christian, not even in the most warped and perverted way (and we know how warped and perverted the naziviews were).
      Heinrich Himmler was mainly interested in King Arthur nonsense and Albert Speer was indifferent, so it seems to me.
      In a way this is logical. Nazism was about worshipping Hitler. For prominent nazis there was no room left for worshipping the Holy Trinity.
      Perhaps you could ask your professor when exactly Bormann, Goebbels, Speer and Himmler spoke favourably about Jesus. My bet is that won’t be able to answer you.

      1
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      1. “Once again I more or less disagree with ToN”

        Once again you do so because you didn’t understand what I said. I’m quite aware of Bormann’s views – in fact I noted them. My statement that the claim “the Nazis were Christian” was “slightly more correct, but misleading” referred to the fact that the overwhelming majority of Nazi Party rank and file members were Christians. Which makes the claim “slightly more correct”. But it’s misleading because, despite this, Nazi ideology was fundamentally non-Christian and its leading ideologues – Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler and Bormann – were anti-Christians to varying degrees of vehemence. So the claim is, as I said, “slightly more correct, but misleading”.

  37. There have been insistent atheists who demand, after doing work for me, to be paid with objects that have “In God We Trust ” on them. Does this mean they or I or the US Federal Reserve are Christian ideologues?

    1. Not a good analogy I’m afraid. No, it doesn’t mean they are Christian ideologues. But it does mean that Christian ideologues insisted it be placed on US currency in 1957 during the Cold War. This is not the same as the Nazis continuing the use of a long used slogan on the Wehrmacht’s belt buckles. In fact, it is totally different to that.

      1. While browsing around to find some articles by Robert ventresca, I just stumbled upon this scholary article that seems to debunk the point about Pius xi and Pius xii opposing communism just as much as nazism.

        Whaddaya think? Would not surprise me if it’s complete horseshit given the previous material I linked to (unfortunately), but it was an interesting read nonetheless.

          1. At least that article is by an actual scholar and seems to be properly researched. Yes, the Vatican juggled its condemnations of Nazism with its condemnations of Communism in the pre-War years. Just as it did so in the War years, where it restrained its condemnation of the Soviet Union because it didn’t want to weaken the Allied war effort against the Nazis. That should tell you where its priorities lay.

  38. Hmmm. Researching academia.edu further, I found an article by an Italian historian that boldly made the claim that:

    “In fact the Nazi ideology with its visceral anticommunism found not little agreement with the church that was not reticent in applauding” up until 1937″ the rise of the Nazi system identified as the bulwark of the efficient west against the Bolshevik threat from the east.”.

    Your article does not really touch upon the time period 1933-1937(apart from noting that the catholic church filed some condemnations) so I just wondered what you’d think about it, since the description certainly sounds a lot more cosy than the relationship described in your article. Especially the stuff about the Vatican welcoming the rise of nazi Germany sounds contradictory to your outline of their relationship, and this time it isn’t some new atheist or undergrad making the claim.

    Would not be surprised to see that you find it way too simplified, and is also running out of patience with answering stuff I find on that website, but hey I promise I wont be bothering you more after this one:)

    This is a topic that I have increasingly begun to find genuinely interesting, and I guess I kind of have to thank your blog for it.

    Link for the article can be found here:

    https://www.academia.edu/9344217/Northern_Central_Italian_Catholic_Hierarchies_and_Catholic_Public_Opinion_on_Fascist_Racism_and_Anti_Semitism_1937_1939_

    (the article is mainly concerned with the relationship to fascist Italy, the relationship with nazi Germany is described a bit earlier in the article)

    1
    1
    1. Your article does not really touch upon the time period 1933-1937(apart from noting that the catholic church filed some condemnations) so I just wondered what you’d think about it, since the description certainly sounds a lot more cosy than the relationship described in your article.

      If I wrote about everything I could have on this topic, my article would have been a book. So I concentrated on the claims made by atheists like Hitchens, since that is the focus of my blog. For the wider picture, I’d recommend the books in my “Further Reading” list. In brief, as I’ve already noted in other comments, prior to 1939 the Vatican made its condemnation of Nazi ideology clear and was no friend to the Hitler regime, but saw Soviet Communism as the greater expansionist threat. With the outbreak of war, that position reversed and the Vatican held back in its condemnation of the Soviets so as not to undermine the Allied effort to defeat Hitler.

      I can’t see anything in that paper about the Vatican being “cosy” with the Third Reich and the Papal encyclical Mit brennender Sorge was a major statement condemning Nazism and was seen as such; particularly by the Nazis, who promptly banned it.

      1. Well, does that mean that you agree when the article stated that the Vatican, “was not reticent in APPLAUDING (my emphasis), up until 1937 the rise of the nazi system”.

        Just a bit curious.

        1. That is total nonsense. In the period from 1933 to 1937 the Church issued more than 50 official protests to the Nazi government over harassment of churchmen, violations of civil rights and the treatment of minorities, including Jews. And if the Vatican was “not reticent in applauding” the Nazi regime, then it appears that Hermann Goering didn’t get the memo. Here is his assessment in 1935:

          “Catholic believers carry away but one impression from attendance at divine services and that is that the Catholic Church rejects the institutions of the Nationalist State. How could it be otherwise when they are continuously engaging in polemics on political questions or events in their sermons … hardly a Sunday passes but that they abuse the so-called religious atmosphere of the divine service in order to read pastoral letters on purely political subjects.”

          Other Nazis were equally outraged at the lack of “applauding” two years later when they banned the Papal encyclical Mit brennender Sorge. The Nazi-controlled German newspapers made no mention of the encyclical. The Gestapo visited the offices of every German diocese the next day and seized all the copies they could find. Every publishing company that had printed it was closed and sealed, diocesan newspapers were proscribed, and limits imposed on the paper available for Church purposes. They didn’t see it as “applause”.

          Perhaps you should stop cherry picking from articles self-published on Academia.edu and read some of the books I recommend at the end of my article above.

        2. @Ronny: really, if you want to criticize the RCC for its attitude in the 1930’s and 40’s don’t suck stuff out of a big fat thumb but stick to well established historical facts. There are plenty.

          1. The RCC had a good relation with some other fascist countries, notably Franco’s Spain.
          2. The RCC protests mainly (but not exclusively) focused on the position of catholics and their clergy in Nazi-Germany.
          3. In 1945 catholic clergy helped many German war criminals escape to South-America. The most infamous examples are Eichmann and Mengele.

          You’re shooting yourself in the feet while your prey stands right before you. Forget the pope; target prominent catholics like Josef Tiso and Alois Hudal instead.
          The flipside consists of heroes like Titus Brandsma and Johannes de Jong.

  39. Hi Tim, sorry to comment on an old post, but i had a couple questions. You said that Hitler was a theist, and that is the view of most historian. But i think that Hitler’s God was an immanent God rather than a trascendent one. Like ‘Nature’, or an impersonal ‘Providence’ or Destiny. I doubt it was a personal God like that of Abrahamitic religions. But perhaps i’m wrong; what do you think?
    I’ve read somewhere that some Nazi hierarch (Heydrich maybe?) ordered his name to be cancelled from the parish baptismal register. Is that true?
    Thanks in advance.

    1. i think that Hitler’s God was an immanent God rather than a trascendent one. Like ‘Nature’, or an impersonal ‘Providence’ or Destiny. I doubt it was a personal God like that of Abrahamitic religions. But perhaps i’m wrong; what do you think?

      That’s possible, but it’s hard to say. Whatever his conception was, he was not an atheist, as is often erroneously claimed.

      I’ve read somewhere that some Nazi hierarch (Heydrich maybe?) ordered his name to be cancelled from the parish baptismal register. Is that true?

      I’ve never heard that and can’t find any reference to it.

    2. I couldn’t find at a quick glance any reference to Hitler’s name being purged from Braunau’s records, either.

      However, IF such a thing happened – or, as is more likely, IF a rumour was spread about such a thing having happened – surely the reason for it wasn’t so much Hitler being baptised Catholic, which was common knowledge and taken as granted, rather than the confusing and ever so slightly dodgy Schiklgruber-Hüttler-Hiedler-Pölzl family tree, which gave ready ammunition for anti-Führer propaganda. Purity indeed.

  40. Thank you for this very clear and well-sourced discussion of Pius XII, and for sweeping away the myths about him. I was greatly disturbed when one of my favorite spy thriller writers, Daniel Silva, a Catholic who converted to Judaism, began to show signs of becoming increasingly hostile to the Church’s role during WWII. He appears to be close to Daniel Goldhagen and various other writers of that ilk. He appears to believe that any suggestion that Catholic monasteries, priests, and spy networks ever helped Jews to escape during the war is entirely a postwar confection created to save Catholic skins. He is also obsessed with the fact that the Church helped many Catholic Church officials helped German war criminals to escape justice after the war, which is, alas, true.

  41. Also, this letter from Pope Pius XII to the bishop of MÜNSTER clearly reveals the anti-catholic activities which were endorsed by Hitler’s regime.

    “The letters that come to us in recent months from the German episcopate unfortunately give the impression that the year 1941 threatens to bring new and hard trials in your country to the Catholic Church also. Your account (with enclosures), of which we have taken account while suffering with you, brings out in particular the dangers to which Catholic youth is exposed. It is your and our greatest worry, all the greater as the DECHRISTIANIZATION OF YOUTH goes course ahead with a force and violence such that often the domestic hearth and the Church, though animated by the best intentions, appear almost helpless against them. ”
    ~ LETTER OF PIUS XII TO THE BISHOP OF MÜNSTER(The Vatican, 16 February 1941)
    https://archive.ph/WXUbD

  42. >>so now other non-Bavarian elements of entirely opposite persuasion have likewise thought to make Bavaria their base of operations. – This was a none-too-subtle reference to Hitler’s Austrian origins

    I wonder.

    I do not like to say it as a Bavarian, but Hitler while Austrian was also an almost-Bavarian, so to speak, born a short way from the border in the formerly Bavarian Innviertel, and yes, having served in the Bavarian army and all. I can’t rule out that the future Pope thought, “and apart from that, this self-proclaimed ‘drummer of the national awakening movement'” (for that was what Hitler then considered himself) “is even technically an alien”. But:

    when he speaks, at that time, of “non-Bavarian elements”, the much more straightforward thing to infer is that he thought of the likes of Ludendorff, Hermann Ehrhardt and company. These were Prussians, but Munich came to be the place-of-exile for all those coup-dreaming anti-Weimar-Republic rightists. Hitler, while his ideology was probably even then different from them, was then in their company, but just one and certainly not the most non-Bavarian figure. One of the particularly catchy slogans in the fight against Hitler’s Beer Hall Putsch was “rescue Bavaria from the hands of the Prussian Ludendorff” (or something like it).

  43. >>Heinrich Brüning, the moderate Centre Party leader … Hindenburg won the 1932 presidential election against Hitler, but he moved substantially to the right to do so and Brüning resigned as Chancellor on May 30 as a result.

    This is, pardon me, somewhat wrong, though that is not relevant to the main focus article.

    Heinrich Brüning was, at least if Haffner in “From Bismarck to Hitler” can be trusted, not so much moderate, at least not in absolute terms. Sure, he was not a “classical right-winger”, and even less of a Nazi or leftist; but still he was appointed Chancellor in order to replace parliamentary by presidential government – on a permanent basis, that is. That he ruled by decree (and the SPD’s tolerance of the lesser evil in not annulling the decrees) is in any case a fact.

    And Hindenburg did not become more right-wing in order to win against Hitler. Hindenburg himself was by personally a right-winger, though loyal to the Constitution in the first years of his presidency and still intent on not formally breaking his oath to it in the later ones. When he was 84 and, they say, visibly old after the end of his first presidency, he should not normally have even been a candidate. As it was, he ran *on the centre-left ticket*, supported by none other than Social Democrats and the Zentrum chiefly. They thought that even at his age he was the only, or at any rate best, chance to avoid Hitler.

    So, Hindenburg did not become rightist to win. If anything, he became (by supporters) centre-leftist to win. The rightists, who were his friends (that is: not the Nazis, but the *other* rightists) supported Hitler.

    And one of the reasons Brüning had to step down was because he had brought that about; it was very hard for this staunch Prussian conservative Protestant aristocrat to bear to be elected on *such* a ticket. After all, there were just two parties the old Prussian and German-imperial hero, Bismarck, had persecuted as enemies of the Reich: the Zentrum and the Social Democrats.

    (The other reason, if Haffner can be trusted, was that he had postponed the coup d’etat, intent on proving Germany’s insolvency to the World War I allies first.)

  44. Hi Tim, have you read the latest book by David Kertzer, The Pope at War? If I’m not wrong, it’s the first book-longth study made with the newly available materials on Pacelli in the Vatican Archives. I’ve not read it (and I don’t have the knowledge to judge its claims if I did either) but I guess Kertzer doesn’t have good thing to say about the Pope. In the last 20 years he has been slightly obsessed with the bad things done by the Church, but it seems scholars have accepted some of the claims of The Pope and Mussolini, such as Pius XI making an agreement with the Duce to refrain from speaking against the racial laws of 1938. Do you know anything about the new discoveries in the Archives, for example if some contridict or confirm Riebling’s book? Thanks in advance.

    1. I haven’t read Kertzer’s book, but the publicity for it tries to paint it as “ground-breaking” and “explosive”. Except if you look at what it says, it’s basically just putting some spin on things historians have long known about the muted response of Pius XII to the Holocaust. There are already plenty of studies by previous historians who have looked at the position Pius took once he knew the reports about the Holocaust were true, why he took them, how he agonised over them and whether we can say he made the right choices. Maybe the blurbs for Kertzer’s book are mainly publishing hype and his work is careful and considered. But it doesn’t sound like it.

        1. Maybe not. For some reason atheist polemicists tend to go with the “Hitler was a Christian” and “Pius loved the Nazis” myths when it comes to this period of history. Overstatements about the Vatican’s approach to the Holocaust are much less a part of their rhetoric. Usually they just note that Pius was not sufficiently outspoken in his condemnation of persecution of the Jews, which is simplistic but not completely wrong.

    2. “In the last 20 years he has been slightly obsessed with the bad things done by the Church.”
      That’s never a good sign. Scientific research requires to consider all relevant data. Historians should do that too and hence look at the good things done by the RCC as well. Like Titus Brandsma.

  45. Have you read John Lukacs comments on Pius XII? Lukacs, a devout Catholic, but also a conscientious historians lists Pius’s misjudgements and blindness. He is not Hitler’s Pope, just a Pope that misread the situation.

  46. Pius XII (according to Rychlak himself) interceded on behalf of Arthur Greiser, one of the architects of the holocaust. That point is almost never addressed by Pius XII’s defenders. I have read a stack of books and articles almost as tall as Pius XII himself and came to the conclusion that he was (almost) as bad as his critics have said he was.

    With all that said, as an apostate, I will not suddenly revert to Catholicism if, somehow, the claims in Riebling’s book turned out accurate. I assume the same is true of most apostates, who, like me, had no idea who Pius XII or Pius XI were until years after they made the choice to leave Catholicism.

    Of course, Riebling himself notes several times that the Pope made no public protest on October 16. 1943 (scholars and well rea laymen know that as the fateful date when over one thousand Jews were rounded up near the Pope’s own residence and later sent to Auschwitz). Riebling also notes that Pius XII made no public statement when Mussolini was finally deposed by the king.

    1. Pius XII (according to Rychlak himself) interceded on behalf of Arthur Greiser, one of the architects of the holocaust.

      As was extensively reported at the time, the Pope made this appeal while noting how Greiser had been “a vigorous enemy of the Church” and did so “following the example of the Divine Master, who on the cross prayed for his crucifiers” (Daily News, New York, Tuesday, 23 July 1946). But you’ve decided this plea was evidence that he loved Nazis?

      I have read a stack of books and articles almost as tall as Pius XII himself and came to the conclusion that he was (almost) as bad as his critics have said he was.

      Your interpretation above makes me doubt your capacity for sound judgement.

      With all that said, as an apostate, I will not suddenly revert to Catholicism if, somehow, the claims in Riebling’s book turned out accurate.

      Whatever. I’m an atheist. Why the hell would I care if you do or don’t return to Catholicism? And there’s no actual “if” about it – Riebling’s book just documents in detail stuff that has been known for decades by specialists.

      Of course, Riebling himself notes several times that the Pope made no public protest on October 16. 1943 (scholars and well rea laymen know that as the fateful date when over one thousand Jews were rounded up near the Pope’s own residence and later sent to Auschwitz). Riebling also notes that Pius XII made no public statement when Mussolini was finally deposed by the king.

      The issues of why Pius made few overt objections to the deportations of Jews and maintained outward neutrality, how much behind the scenes work he did to object to and stymie the persecution of Jews and whether he should have done more or if it would have been effective if he had are all live ones among historians. They are also largely beyond the topic of my article. As I note in my final two paragraphs, “while Pius was not an outspoken saint who stood alone against tyranny in the dark days of World War Two, as Catholic apologists would have us believe, the idea that he was some kind of quisling is absurd. And the claim that he was “pro-Nazi” or “Hitler’s Pope” is total and complete garbage.” Was that unclear to you somehow? Or did you not bother to read the whole article?

      1. Since you came off condescending, I’ll ask if you bothered to read Kertzer’s latest book which exposes the whole claim that Pius XII was involved in a plot to kill Hitler as nothing but British propaganda to get Italian sympathy for the Allies. Kertzer also documents how there is no evidence that Hitler planned on kidnapping the pope and if you read Kertzer’s Pulitzer Prize winning book, you would know that Pope Pius XI DIRECTLY hindered any opposition to Mussolini during the 1920s and 1930s until, at the last minute, Pius XI realized he had made a mistake. So, the popes (Pius XI and XII) were indeed bedfellows with Mussolini and, if not Hitler directly, certainly did not bother to excommunicate a single pro-Nazi priest during or after WWII. There were over a hundred and thirty brown priests (pro-fascist and pro-Nazi priests). Almost none of them left the priesthood and while one or two were murdered by their Fascist “allies”, the vast majority never publicly acknowledged their actions after the war ended.

        “Popular” books like Riebling’s make for interesting reading, but there’s a reason it was not published by an academic press, as Zuccotti’s book was (Yale: 2002) or why it didn’t win a Pulitzer, as Kertzer’s 2014 book did. As Kevin Spicer noted in his 2016 review of Riebling’s book:
        “Still, Riebling overstates his research, as when he acknowledges a curator at the Hoover Institution for unsealing the papers of Father Robert Leiber when, in fact, Leiber had his personal papers destroyed before his death in 1967: the Hoover Institution owns only the transcript of a postwar interview with Leiber, in its Juliusz Stroynowski Collection.”

        What it sounds like is, “Pius XII was not ‘Hitler’s Pope’. Sure, he never excommunicated Mussolini or Hitler, nor any other Nazi or Fascist leader, including among the curia and clergy who supported them. Nor did he make any public statement to clarify matters after the war ended (he died in 1958, over a full decade after the war ended), and yes, he did try to prevent the execution of someone who made the holocaust possible, BUT he was totally not ‘Hitler’s Pope’!”

        History buffs will remember that Queen Elizabeth I, Napoleon, and Victor Immanuel II were all excommunicated. Yet Hitler and his followers, who caused far more death and destruction, were not. I actually looked up the relevant canon law and during WWII, excommunication not only prevented one from receiving the sacraments, but from even entering a Catholic Church. Surely, Italians and Germans (half of Germany was Catholic) would have been put in a much more difficult position if they had to choose between following a man shunned by their Pope and being good Catholics? As Kertzer and every other historian worth their salt has noted, there was no Fascist uprising to keep Mussolini in power once the Grand Council deposed him. None of those responsible for expelling him from the Party were arrested or even spat upon by Fascist guards. Yet, we are to believe the ludicrous proposition that staying silent in the face of Mussolini was a “calculated” judgement? Pius XII made absolutely clear his opposition to Stalinism, as his first encyclical, Summi Pontificatus, is one long tirade against the USSR. Nor did he hesitate to threaten excommunication to anyone even suspected of being a communist, as John Cornwell points out in his 2008 edition of Hitler’s Pope.

        By the way, Charles Coughlin, whom Pius XII defenders INSIST was punished by the pope for his raging antisemitism, himself admitted that he was never punished and continued spreading his antisemitism, as Justus George Lawler noted in his 2012 book Were the Popes Against the Jews? Lawler is, unlike Riebling, a noted Church historian with a much more impressive CV.

        Also, given that Mengele later escaped to South America, only the most naïve could possibly think that Pius XII’s intercession for Greiser was made out of pure Christian “charity”, but if that was indeed the case, then Pius XII was one of the dumbest human beings in history, as many Nazi war criminals escaped justice completely and have managed to live to see the publication of Riebling’s book!

        1. I’ll ask if you bothered to read Kertzer’s latest book which exposes the whole claim that Pius XII was involved in a plot to kill Hitler as nothing but British propaganda

          Since Kertzer is a polemicist with an axe to grind, I haven’t bothered, no. I prefer writers who work with an objective view and am very wary of any, including Pius’ defenders and apologists, who have an agenda. But tell us how exactly he “debunks” something that is pretty clearly and solidly attested by multiple sources and witneses?

          certainly did not bother to excommunicate a single pro-Nazi priest during or after WWII

          Excommunication is not a punishment for being bad. You don’t seem to understand what excommunication is.

          “Popular” books like Riebling’s make for interesting reading, but there’s a reason it was not published by an academic press, as Zuccotti’s book was (Yale: 2002) or why it didn’t win a Pulitzer, as Kertzer’s 2014 book did.

          Winning a Pulitzer is not some imprimatur of correctness or even general historical accuracy. I can give you examples of historical books which have won Pulitzers which historians find absolutely laughable junk – Stephen Greenblatt’s The Swerve: How the World Became Modern (2011) being a recent example. The Pulitzer is a prize for journalism, not history. So your Kertzer book is as much a “popular” one as Riebling’s. Except Riebling’s has been praised by historians and the fact you could only come up with one small criticism on one detail tells us a lot.

          he never excommunicated Mussolini or Hitler, nor any other Nazi or Fascist leader

          See above – you don’t understand what excommunication is. He actually contemplated doing so and considered it carefully. But as a canon lawyer he understood that Hitler was already excommunicate de facto because he was an apostate who had already left the Church. You can’t excommunicate someone who is already out of communion. That may sound pedantic, but canon lawyers are pedantic by nature.

          By the way, Charles Coughlin, whom Pius XII defenders INSIST was punished by the pope for his raging antisemitism

          Yes, because Coughlin wanted to pretend everything was fine and his status and authority were not impinged in any way. This was nonsense. You seem to just repeat dumb talking points like this with no engagement with context or relevant sources.

          given that Mengele later escaped to South America, only the most naïve could possibly think that Pius XII’s intercession for Greiser was made out of pure Christian “charity”,

          So now Pius organised the escape of Mengele? You’re a loon. Go away.

    1. No. Despite some rather silly media coverage declaring that Kertzer had “discovered” amazing new information, what his The Pope at War: the Secret History of Pius XII, Hitler, and Mussolini (2022) details doesn’t add much and simply reinforces what has long been known. Yes, Pius XII had diplomatic contact with the Nazi regime. This doesn’t make them friends. And Kertzer emphasises what the pope didn’t do re the Holocaust while choosing not to emphasis what he did do. There are legitimate questionsa about whether Pius’ policiy of open neutrality and covert resistence was the right one, but Ketrzer has added little or nothing of new substance to that debate.

      1. Thanks for the reply.

        Considering the coverage the book got, do you ever think you’re going to review it? Also what was its reception by scholars?

        1. If it had actually made radical new claims, I’d give it more attention. But apart from some fuss in the media when it came out, it’s had no great impact. My understanding is that its reception was okay because it’s not really saying anything new.

  47. Funny that you won’t even find David Kertzer mentioned here. By “here,” I don’t mean this piece. I mean this entire site.

    Shock me.

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    1. Where would you expect to find him mentioned and why? His only book relevant to any of the topics discussed here is his The Pope at War (2022). That may have had some relevance to my article above, but given I wrote that in 2019 (and I don’t have access to a time machine so that I can consult and refer to books that have yet to be written) I didn’t mention it. And Kertzer hasn’t actually added anything radical or new to the discussion that I haven’t already covered in my article. So, relevance?

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  48. I’m not very knowledgeable on the subject, and I’m not a native English speaker (I clarify this in case I make any mistakes in expressing myself or interpreting the text), but I’m not entirely convinced by the characterization of Hitler and the subsequent conclusion that he could not be a Christian, much less a Catholic. If we applied that standard to define who is or isn’t a Christian (and from now on I’ll refer simply to Christians), I believe the percentage of Christians would decrease significantly, even among fanatical circles. Perhaps the author, due to the circles he moves in, is used to engaging with Christians who are much more educated or well-formed, but of course, this is not the case for most Christians. The average parishioner usually has a much more limited understanding and doctrinal formation, which is normal. I also think he overlooks the human capacity to rationalize contradictory ideologies and continue living without much self-criticism or discomfort. Therefore, the fact that Hitler subordinated his religious belief to nationalism, used it opportunistically, didn’t attend mass every Sunday, or seemed to show little interest in the religious aspect of his life, doesn’t seem to me to be a sufficient argument to dismiss him as a Christian. Under this same logic, you would have to dismiss a large part of the population that identifies as Christian. Thank you very much for the article from colombia.

    1. There is definitely a variety of forms of Christianity with various differing beliefs about Jesus. And there are also various degrees of sophistication among Christians, with some holding unorthodox views that their supposed denomination would not agree with. But what all forms of Christianity and all kinds of Christians have in common is that they do hold supernatural beliefs about Jesus Christ. Hitler didn’t. He held no such beliefs at all. So however you look at it, he was not a Christian.

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