The Great Myths 8: The Loss of Ancient Learning

The Great Myths 8: The Loss of Ancient Learning

The idea that we only have a fraction of Greek and Roman learning and literature because most of it was destroyed by Christians is a common assumed truism in much New Atheist discourse. But this is substantially a simplistic myth based on a number of misconceptions and errors of fact. If anything, we have a succession of Christian scholars to thank for all of the ancient learning that survives.

Burned book

The wicked destruction of the wondrous learning of the ancients by ignorant Christians is a key trope in New Atheist historiography and one regularly repeated without question by anti-theistic polemicists. It is the nexus of a cluster of related historical myths, including the supposed Christian burning of the Great Library of Alexandria, the alleged murder of Hypatia as a martyr for science, the Archimedes Palimpsest as evidence of Christians literally erasing technical learning and many more.

In the fairy tale version of history used by these polemicists, the Greeks and Romans were wise and rational and scientific and on the brink of a scientific and industrial revolution until the evil Christians came along, destroyed almost all of their learning and plunged us into a dark age. What little we have of Greco-Roman learning survived this holocaust of ignorance by chance, largely thanks to Arabic scholars who preserved these fragments until they could be rescued from medieval ignorance by the marvellous rationalists of the Renaissance. As usual, this simple and pretty picture is almost entirely nonsense.

There are thousands of examples of this cluster of myths being articulated by New Atheists of all levels of prominence. But, as I noted in my recent review of Tom Holland’s Dominion, it has recently been given a vocal and vehement expression by A.C. Grayling in a testy exchange with Holland on Justin Brierley’s Christian radio show/podcast Unbelievable in December 2019. Grayling is a former Professor of Philosophy at Birkbeck, University of London, and the current master of the New College of the Humanities. And he also has a book of history on the bookshop shelves – his recent A History of Philosophy (Penguin, 2019). So it is quite startling to find that this supposedly learned gentleman accepts a bizarre grab-bag of pseudo historical myths and patent errors of fact on the subject of Christianity and the transmission of ancient learning.

The Twilight of the Philosophers?

In a slightly rambling diatribe, Grayling rehearses a whole string of hoary nonsense about the supposed Christian destruction of ancient learning. Beginning at 23.35 mins into the video above, he really warms to this theme:

There’s no contradiction between saying that the early Christians tried to efface a pagan culture – they failed. They smashed a lot of temples and they burned a lot of books. …. [L]et me give you an example. We have seven of Aeschylus’ plays and we know the titles of 70 We have something like you know a dozen or so of … ummm … Euripides …

Here Holland quite reasonably interjects, asking “But what makes you think we don’t have them because Christians destroyed them?” Grayling fumbles around in response, asserting vaguely that we “know” this because “we know the Christians destroyed a great deal of the material culture of antiquity”. When pressed on the point of how he “knows” there was a Christian campaign to eliminate ancient learning, he claims this began in “the first couple of decades after 380 under Theodosius the First” and continued for centuries:

Right up to 529 AD when Justinian closed the School of Athens after 900 years of Plato’s Academy … was closed and the philosophers were driven out, there’d been a systematic attempt to try to efface that … the record and … and the remains of classical civilisation in order to impose the Christian view on it. It didn’t work in the end because in the end Christianity had to absorb and adopt it.

Look at Aquinas … That’s the reason why Thomism is the official religion – the official philosophy, beg your pardon – of the Roman Catholic religion … is because Aquinas had to take over the Aristotelian corpus wholesale. So you know that in itself is and enough of an example.

This is almost entirely nonsense. As Holland later goes on to point out, there is actually no evidence of any such “systematic” or even sporadic but extensive attempt at extinguishing ancient learning. And if this had happened as Grayling claims, we would indeed have plenty of such evidence. After all, it is not like the Christian emperors of the fourth to sixth centuries were shy about letting everyone know of which ideas, people and works they disapproved. Grayling points to Theodosius as the point of origin of this imagined campaign of destruction, and Theodosius’ laws and edicts as collected in the Theodosian Code certainly do contain some references to books and writings he decreed were to be found, gathered and destroyed. But these were the Christian writings of those deemed “heretics”, not pagan philosophers and playwrights. For example:

“Eunomians and Montanists are to be expelled from the cities, and if they reside in the country and should hold assemblies, they are to be deported and the owners of the land they inhabited punished.  Heretical books are to be destroyed. (C Th. 16.5.34)

“Nestorianism is condemned. Their books are banned and shall be burned. (C Th. 16.5.66)

Similarly Theodosius and other emperors of the time condemned divination and astrology and ordered astrological books to be burned (see C Th. 9.16.12). But nowhere in this compendium or in any subsequent collections of imperial edicts do we find any injunctions to burn pagan learning. Nor do we find any references to any such orders anywhere else, even in the writings of enthusiastic anti-pagan Christian polemicists, who celebrated any examples of the humiliation of their former persecutors. Grayling says “they smashed a lot of temples” and this is more or less true (though often wildly overstated), but it does not follow that they also deliberately destroyed pagan learning as well, for the reasons discussed in more detail below.

So what of Grayling’s claim that Justinian closed “Plato’s Academy” in 529 AD – an idea that he gets rather agitated about and mentions twice in his exchange with Holland? According to Grayling’s breathless retelling, this brought to an end a venerable 900 year academic legacy and saw “the philosophers … driven out”. That certainly sounds like the dramatic culmination of a successful campaign of suppression of ancient learning, but unfortunately, Grayling is perpetuating a periwigged Gibbonian fantasy here as well.

Contrary to Grayling’s claims, the Academy founded by Plato came to an end before Christianity even existed and centuries before Justinian. Plato founded the Academy in a leafy suburb of Athens around 387 BC and it was headed by his successors until the First Mithradatic War (89-85 BC) dragged Athens into conflict with the Romans. The Roman general Lucius Cornelius Sulla besieged the city in 86 BC and then sacked it, causing massive destruction and disruption. Plutarch relates that “[Sulla] laid hands upon the sacred groves and ravaged the Academy, which was the most wooded of the city’s suburbs, as well as the Lyceum” (Sulla, XII). The last head of the Academy, Antiochus of Ascalon, fled to Alexandria and when he returned to Athens he did not refound the ruined Academy and instead set up his own small school elsewhere. The Roman statesman Marcus Tullius Cicero, a student of Antiochus, visited the site of the former Academy a generation later, describing it as “quiet and deserted” (De Finibus, V).

So much for Grayling’s claim. The Academy he is referring to was not that of Plato, but a later pale imitation of it founded in the fourth century AD by the neo-Platonist scholar Plutarch. This small private school was dominated by the teachings of Proclus and it was far from the centre of rationalist science and learning that Grayling seems to imagine. Proclus and the neo-Platonic devotees of the new Academy before him were of the late neo-Platonic school of Iamblicus.

This means they held to a semi-Gnostic cosmology whereby humans were mired in a physical world that separated them from their true intellectual and spiritual nature. They saw the gods as manifestations and emanations from the divine, cosmic “One” and as beings who needed to be invoked by ritual, sacrifice, hymns and the pronouncement of nonsensical-sounding “words of power”, as well as apprehended by sacred and divinely inspired scriptures. The rationalist Grayling would almost certainly find their beliefs weird and their practices – animal sacrifices, relating stories of visions, miracles and talking statues, as well as the practice of ritual magic – totally alien and superstitious nonsense. Yet this is the institution whose end he laments as the destruction of rational learning. You would think an academic who has just written a history of philosophy would know all this, but it appears Grayling’s grasp of actual history is weak indeed.

And was this small school of hymn-chanting, magical mystics closed by Justinian as part of some Empire-wide campaign against learning? No, it was not. As Edward J. Watts details comprehensively in his excellent article on the subject (“Justinian, Malalas and the End of Athenian Philosophical Teaching in A.D. 529”, The Journal of Roman Studies, 94, 2004, pp. 168-182), Justinian issued a general decree that the few remaining overtly pagan schools were no longer to be funded from the Imperial treasury. The Athens Iamblican school was clearly not financially viable without this funding, so its last master, Damascius, closed up shop himself – evidence that his mystical philosophy was more a hobby of aristocratic dilettantes than a vibrant force.

So what about Grayling’s dramatic claim that “the philosophers were driven out”? Again, this is a bit of myth. Damascius and his small group certainly did decide to go into exile and abandoned the Roman Empire to take refuge at the court of the Sassanian Persian king Khosrow I in around 532 AD. Unfortunately, Persia did not prove the idyllic refuge they imagined and a few years later they petitioned to come home and were accepted back into the Empire. There they continued to teach unmolested, though not on the taxpayer’s dime. So much for “driven out”.

Finally, the implication that this dramatic “closing of the Academy of Plato” and philosophers being “driven out” somehow meant the death knell for ancient learning is also total nonsense. Other major schools, far larger and more important than Damascius’ mystical little salon, continued to operate in cities like Constantinople, Antioch, and Alexandria and continued to teach the late Roman curriculum of the classics, rhetoric, philosophy and science as they always had. The intellectual apocalypse that Grayling imagines and fulminates against … never happened.

“The Gold of the Egyptians”

Grayling seems totally oblivious to the fact that, far from condemning all pagan learning, Christianity had long since come to accommodate the Classical intellectual tradition and had done so well before Theodosius’ time, let alone that of Justinian. This is why those major academies in Constantinople, Antioch, and Alexandria and hundreds of others elsewhere continued to teach the traditional subjects and texts, even as schools that were overtly pagan in their religious teaching and practice faded away. As I have detailed several times before (here, here and here, for example), there was indeed a debate about the worth of “pagan” works among the early Christians. And it was those who argued that they should be rejected or even just neglected who had lost that debate.

So while Tertullian famously asked “what has Athens to do with Jerusalem?”, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, John Damascene and many others answered “quite a bit”. They argued that all truth ultimately came from God, even if the conduit for it was Jewish revelation or Greek reasoning. So to reject all potential sources of truth other than scripture was to reject gifts from God. Augustine gave the triumphant argument its classic and most influential expression:

Just as the Egyptians had not only idols and grave burdens which the people of Israel detested and avoided, so also they had vases and ornaments of gold and silver and clothing which the Israelites took with them secretly when they fled, as if to put them to a better use. …. In the same way all the teachings of the pagans contain not only simulated and superstitious imaginings and grave burdens of unnecessary labour, …. but also liberal disciplines more suited to the uses of truth, and some most useful precepts concerning morals. Even some truths concerning the worship of the one God are discovered among them.

(De Doctrina Christiana, II.40.60)

This set the precedent that was then followed in both the east and west: pagan learning could and should be preserved and examined for “the uses of truth”. Not everything in them was to be accepted, but neither should it all necessarily be rejected either. Philosophy was seen as “the handmaiden of theology”, but even in his subordinate category it had very high status. And that status meant that it was preserved. As leading historian of ancient and medieval thought Edward Grant notes:

“The handmaiden concept of Greek learning was widely adopted and became the standard Christian attitude toward secular learning. …. With the total triumph of Christianity at the end of the fourth century, the Church might have reacted against pagan learning in general, and Greek philosophy in particular, finding much in the latter that was unacceptable or perhaps even offensive. They might have launched a major effort to suppress pagan learning as a danger to the Church and its doctrines. But they did not.”

(The Foundations of Modern Science in the Middle Ages), Cambridge, 1996, p. 4

“But they did not”. Grayling’s claim that they, in fact, did is total fantasy and he seems woefully unaware of the real status of pagan learning in the transition to the medieval world. Blinded by his comic book-level grasp of the relevant history and his wild fantasies of burned books, closed schools and fleeing philosophers, the actual events are obscured to him by his wilful ignorance. That this person is considered a leading academic, and one worthy of penning a popular history of philosophy, is rather disturbing.

Of course, he is not so totally ignorant that he is not aware that they did, in fact, copy and study these earlier pagan works. After all, later in his testy exchange with Holland he actually takes medieval scholars to task for being too reliant on Aristotle and Pliny and praises his “Renaissance” heroes for being sceptical of these pagan authorities (it seems for people like Grayling medieval scholars are “damned if they don’t and also damned if they do”). So he explains this by claiming this veneration only happened “much later on” and making his strange comments about Aquinas. From his exchange with Holland:

[The supposed Christian suppression of pagan knowledge] didn’t work in the end, because in the end Christianity had to absorb and adopt it.

Look at Aquinas … That’s the reason why Thomism is the official religion – the official philosophy, beg your pardon – of the Roman Catholic religion … is because Aquinas had to take over the Aristotelian corpus wholesale. So you know that in itself is and enough of an example.

The only thing this is an example of is more of Grayling’s weird mangling of history. His supposed “systematic” campaign of suppression and destruction is feverish fantasy, so the claim it “didn’t work in the end” is nonsense because it never happened in the first place. Therefore the claim that this supposed failure forced Aquinas “to take over the Aristotelian corpus wholesale” is more nonsense. Aquinas was simply working in the centuries-long Christian tradition of accepting, analysing and absorbing pagan learning and synthesising it with the rest of his received intellectual tradition: carrying off the gold of the Egyptians.

After all, Aristotle had been at the core of the medieval curriculum for nearly eight centuries; ever since Boethius (c. 477–524 AD) translated his Categories and De Interpretatione and added them to the Isagoge of Porphyry to make up what came to be known as the logica vetus – the “old logic” that formed one third of the foundational Trivium in all western medieval education. Far from being somehow forced to accept Aristotle and his ilk, Aquinas was merely doing what medieval scholars had always done: using pagan texts that had been accepted since the ancient arguments of Origen and Augustine. Once again, Grayling does not have a clue what he is talking about.

Then Transmission of Ancient Texts: Cliches vs Realities

One of the more remarkable examples of Grayling’s distinctly spotty grasp of the relevant history is the tangle he gets into over how we moderns manage to read any classical Greek and Roman works at all. In his weird version, the Christians from Theodosius onward supposedly indulged in a “systematic” attempt to destroy these works, which ultimately failed. So then Aquinas, working a whole 900 years later, is forced to accept them in some way. But how did they survive the intervening almost-millennium of alleged Christian destruction and neglect? Grayling has an answer. He begins by talking about the Greek works preserved in Arabic translation in the Muslim world, citing “the library lists in the tenth century of [sic] Baghdad”. When Holland asks “who do you think was translating them?” he responds:

The Arab and Persian scholars …. I forget the name of the caliph now, who had a dream and said that these texts must be translated from the Greek into Arabic …. [they] preserved technical and medical and astronomical and mathematical texts from the Greek.

Once again, this is a garbled pastiche of things that actually happened and ignorance of context or key details. What Grayling ignores (despite Holland’s repeated and increasingly exasperated attempts to tell him) is that the texts that these “Arab and Persian scholars” translated into Arabic did not fall from the sky – they were given to them by Byzantine and Nestorian scholars. Christian scholars. Christian scholars who had been preserving, studying and commenting on them for centuries and who continued to do so for centuries more.

The real story of how these texts were preserved and passed down to us is far more complex and interesting than Grayling’s confused comic book version. But it is one he has to reject, irritably brush aside or brazenly ignore because it does not fit his ideologically driven anti-Christian narrative at all.

The essential monograph on the subject is L.D. Reynolds and N.G. Wilson’s Scribes and Scholars: A Guide to the Transmission of Greek and Latin Literature, now in its fourth edition and a book that Grayling has clearly never read. Reynolds and Wilson note that “many influential clergy” disliked pagans and their literature and learning equally, but they go on to observe that “if this attitude had been adopted by all the clergy it would in due course, as the new religion became universal by the fifth century, have imposed an effective censorship on classical literature” (p. 48) but make it clear – contra Grayling – that this did not happen.

What definitely did happen is that tastes in what books and ideas were most popular clearly changed with the conversion to Christianity and, unsurprisingly in a period before printing, this affected what books did or did not get copied, which in turn had an impact on what books survived. So Reynolds and Wilson are also clear that this did affect the survival of some ancient books:

[T]here can be little doubt that one of the major reasons for the loss of classical texts is that most Christians were not interested in reading them, and hence not enough new copies of the texts were made to ensure their survival in an age of war and destruction.

(p. 48)

But this had always been the case. The lyric poet Sappho was highly praised by the Greeks and often referred to simply as “the Poetess” or even “the Tenth Muse”. But she was also depicted as both licentious and bisexual not long after her death and while many Roman poets imitated her style (e.g. Ovid) other Romans disapproved of her supposed “immorality” and especially her homoeroticism – Horace dismissed her as “mascula Sappho”. Prim Roman disapproval aside, she became a poet who was more praised than read, largely because she wrote in the Aeolic dialect of her native Lesbos, which Attic Greeks regarded as “barbaric”. By Roman times Attic literature was the norm and Aeolic poetry was less read and so less copied.

Like many of her contemporaries, Sappho probably just fell victim to a general narrowing of interest in the literature of the past, which resulted eventually in a drastic reduction in the number of texts in circulation.

(Margaret Williamson, Sappho’s Immortal Daughters, Harvard, 1995, 41–2.)

Late Roman Christian and Byzantine scholars inherited both the Roman view of Sappho as licentious and their preference for Attic literature, so this combination meant more of the earlier praise of Sappho survives than her actual poetry.

There were also trends and preferences in pre-Christian philosophy that affected the transmission of certain texts. As Nathan Johnston has discussed, New Atheists like Hitchens and Stenger praise a romanticised version of Democritus’ atomism, mistaking it for a modern-style scientific idea and lamenting the supposed destruction of his works by wicked Christians. But pre-Socratic philosophers like Democritus had already fallen from favour long before Christianity. Diogenes Laërtius tells us that Plato declared that he wished to burn all the works of Democritus that he could collect and was talked out of doing so by Amyclas and Clinias, who pointed out that his works were already widely circulated (see R. Ferwerda, “Democritus and Plato.” Mnemosyne, vol. 25, no. 4, 1972, pp. 337–378.). That may have been so in the fifth and fourth centuries BC, but later trends in philosophy meant other philosophical schools, including Platonic ones, predominated and Democritus’ works were copied less and less.

Indeed, by the time the late Roman Empire converted to Christianity, forms of Neoplatonism were the dominant philosophical force and other schools of thought were already, to varying degrees, comparatively on the wane. Not surprisingly, Christianity adopted a great deal of Neoplatonic thought; both because of its prevalence from the third century onward and because it was broadly compatible with Christian theology. But this does not mean that other philosophies were totally neglected, let alone banned or marked for “systematic” destruction.

John of Damascus encouraged his readers to study “the best contributions of the philosophers of the Greeks” arguing that “whatever there is of good has been given to men from above by God, since ‘every best gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights’”(Philosophical Chapters, 1958,5). Similarly, Clement argued that philosophy was worth study because “[t]he way of truth is therefore one. But into it, as into a perennial river, streams flow from all sides.” (Stromata, I.5).  So not only was Neoplatonism widely studied, but Stoic and Aristotelian works were also commonplace in Christian schools. And even works that were broadly incompatible with Christian ideas were still preserved and studied. Ever since Renaissance literature scholar Stephen Greenblatt’s dubious book The Swerve: How the World Became Modern (2012) became a bestseller, many polemicists have parroted Greenblatt’s claims that Christianity “suppressed” the Epicurean writer Lucretius’ De rerum natura. Of course, this ignores the fact that Greenblatt’s humanist hero Poggio “discovered” Lucretius in a copy preserved by medieval monks. And other evidence shows that this copy was actually one of many. So much for suppression.

What is actually surprising is not how little of this kind of material that was fairly incompatible with Christianity survives, but actually how much of it made it to our time. Even some of the pagan hymns written by the fervently anti-Christian Iamblican, Proclus, – whose mystical Academy in Athens Grayling laments – can be read today because they were preserved by Christians. And if works like this have survived to our time, they represent a fraction of what was actually preserved.

On the whole, therefore, pagan works were not the great threat to Christianity that polemicists like Grayling imagine. Even ones that were not compatible with Christian theology were often still preserved and studied and the rest were either broadly compatible – Plato minus the transmigration of souls, or Aristotle ignoring his eternal, uncreated cosmos, for example – or theologically neutral. After all, works of mathematics or natural philosophy were not exactly going to excite the alarm of even religious zealots.

Contrary to Grayling’s fantasies, schools and academies continued to operate across the Christian world both after Theodosius and after Justinian and, as Reynolds and Wilson state categorically, “there was in general no attempt to alter the school curriculum by banishing the classical authors” (p. 50). They note that, as already discussed, “heretical” Christian works were sometime subject to orders for their destruction but stress:

On the other hand, no case has yet come to light in which the Church took such drastic methods against a classical text: even the works of the detested apostate Julian survived.

(p. 51)

Far from being closed by wicked emperors, in the time of Justinian and his successors, “higher education in the Eastern part of the empire was more flourishing than ever before” (p. 51-2), with major schools not only in Constantinople, Antioch and Alexandria but also Athens, Beirut and Gaza. Far from suppressing ancient learning, Christian expansion eastward spread and propagated it. Nestorian Christians translated key pagan works into Syriac and studied and commented on them in major schools within the Sassanian Persian Empire at Nisibis and Edessa. There Christian scholars translated and studied Aristotle, Theophrastus, Lucian, Dionysius Thrax and many others. Some of these works only survive to us thanks to these Syriac speaking monks.

Learning within the Eastern Empire declined in the eighth century (see below), but saw a revival in the ninth, with the refounding of the Imperial University at Constantinople, directed by the remarkable scholar Leo the Mathematician. Leo, despite his cognomen, was a brilliant polymath who, as well as mathematics, studied Aristotelian logic, astronomy, medicine and philology and created elaborate mechanical automata. Contrary to another persistent New Atheist myth, we also have Leo to thank for the preservation of the works of Archimedes. Leo’s revival fostered other wide ranging scholars such as Theodore (who specialised in geometry), Theodegius (astronomy) and Cometas (literary criticism and rhetoric). All of these scholars worked with, expanded on and preserved ancient classical learning.

They were assisted by the adoption of literary technology that helped preserve texts better. Ancient books were generally written on scrolls of papyrus. Shorter works could be preserved on wax tablets and parchment was certainly known, but papyrus was the most common writing medium because it was cheap and plentiful. It was also relatively delicate, prone to break as it aged and highly susceptible to damp, vermin and fire. But while there was plenty of papyrus coming out of Egypt and plenty of literate slaves to produce new copies of crumbling works, this was not a problem.

The break up of the Roman Empire meant that the trade networks which had brought Egyptian papyrus to the western provinces broke down and then the loss of Egypt to Arab conquerors restricted supply in the Eastern Empire also. Parchment was a more expensive alternative, but it had the advantage of being highly durable. Parchment can last for centuries and survive all kinds of conditions, while papyrus disintegrated unless very carefully preserved in a dry atmosphere. Parchment can also be folded and bound, lending itself to the form of book that Christians had already adopted widely because it was durable and portable: the codex, which is the ancestor of all books today.

Leo’s schools developed a smaller, neater and faster book hand – minuscule script – which occupied far less space on a page than previous hands and could be written legibly at high speed by a practised scribe. This meant more text could be copied faster onto fewer pages. All of these developments increased the chances that a work could survive in a period when many texts – due to their length, obscurity or technical nature – were only preserved in a few copies. As I have explained before, the odds of survival were stacked against any book in the pre-printing period and Christian works were every bit as likely to be lost as classical pagan ones. See “The Lost Books of Photios’ Bibliotheca” for analysis on this point.

So in an age where the life of any book and therefore any text was precarious, these Christian scholars preserved and shared the classical texts they inherited from the pagan world, spreading them beyond the confines of Christendom. And this is where we return to Grayling’s “Arab and Persian scholars”.

In his fantasy version of history, Christians destroyed pagan learning but “Arab and Persian scholars” managed to preserve some of it, which allows us to read it today. He thinks that a Muslim caliph – he forgets the name, but he is talking about Abdallah al-Ma’mun (786-833 AD) – ordered the translation of key works into Arabic after having a dream about Aristotle and this is why we have these works today. This ignores the fact that such translations pre-date this ruler by almost a century; the second Abbasid caliph, Abu Ja’far al Mansur, had established his capital at Baghdad and began the sponsorship of translations of a variety of texts. This was continued by his successors, including the great Harun al-Rashid.

These Abbasid rulers attracted scholars from all over the Islamic world, including the Nestorian Christian scholars already mentioned, who brought with them the knowledge of the Greeks that they had preserved. In his clash with Holland, Grayling repeatedly tries to brush aside the inconvenient fact that it was Christians who gave his “Arab and Persian scholars” their classical texts in the first place. It is only by this wilful and irrational ignoring of key elements in the story that Grayling and those like him can keep their fantasy version aloft. At its first encounter with real history, the whole thing comes crashing down.

The Dark Ages and New Dawns

One of the ways Grayling tries to sustain his narrative of Christian destruction of learning is to point to evidence of the loss of pre-Christian works, saying things like “[f]or something like five centuries about the only thing that was known of Plato was the Timaeus.” He tries to use this to sustain his claims about Christians generally, from Theodosius onwards, suppressing and destroying ancient learning. But Holland quite correctly pulls him up by noting that this loss of Plato was only “in the Latin West” and so it does not actually support Grayling’s claims about Christians destroying and neglecting ancient learning generally. When Holland tries to correct this piece of fancy footwork by noting – again correctly – that Christians in the Byzantine and Nestorian east were actually preserving the works of Plato and many others, all Grayling can do is bluster nonsense like “that is simply not true”. But it is what Grayling is claiming that is not true.

It certainly is true that by around the eighth century the Timaeus was the only work of Plato available in western Europe. But this was not because of any imaginary campaign of destruction or neglect by wicked Christians. It was because of a long series of periods of decay in western intellectual life, caused primarily by economic decline and spiralling political collapse. By the late sixth century, despite several periods of relative stabilisation and slight recovery, Roman civilisation had catastrophically fallen apart in western Europe and what intellectuals there were – all of whom were churchmen – were left to pick up and piece together the fragments that remained.

One of the main effects of this long catastrophe was the almost total loss of literacy in Greek, which meant that only the few classical Greek works which had been translated into Latin were preserved in the chaos. Thus Calcidius’ Latin translation of the Timaeus in the fourth century made it the only work of Plato’s available in the Middle Ages before the twelfth century. This is not because of any dislike or disregard for Plato; on the contrary, as already noted Christian theology was heavily influenced by later Platonism. It was simply because the texts were not available.

People like Grayling find it impossible to imagine that the texts of great works could simply be lost, and leap to the erroneous conclusion that there had to be foul play involved. But this misunderstands ancient literary culture. While a reasonable proportion of ancient people were somewhat literate, it was only a tiny elite that received the level of education which allowed access to the corpus of ancient higher learning and literature. And it was only this elite and a tiny few other beneficiaries who had the time and money to study, expand on and preserve these texts. This means that only a few works – mainly the poetry of Homer and perhaps Virgil – that existed in many thousands of copies. Most other works existed in the hundreds or, more usually, the dozens. Many, especially technical works with a very small audience, would only have existed in a handful of copies at any given time.

This made any text, regardless of content, a precarious item at the best of times. In the worst of times – and in western Europe the period leading up to the ninth century was definitely that – books were destroyed and the intellectual infrastructure to preserve their texts degraded catastrophically.

The collapse of the Western Roman Empire and the “Dark Age” that followed it was certainly catastrophic in most respects, but it was neither sudden nor uniform across western Europe. While Roman civilisation collapsed almost completely in northern regions like Britain and north Gaul and did so in the space of a generation in the fifth century, things went on much as they had been in places like Italy and Aquitaine. And while the deposing of the last Western Emperor in 476 AD makes a convenient date marker for “the end”, the decline in intellectual culture dated all the way back to the chaos of the third century and was slowed to some extent by attempts at revival, for example in Ostrogothic Italy in the sixth century. But the cumulative effect was ultimately devastating and even the most learned seventh century Visigothic or eight century Frankish scholar had access little more than scraps of what had once been.

The decline in literacy in Greek seems to have been due to the massive disruptions of the third century. In the “Military Anarchy” period of 235–284 AD the Roman Empire saw no less than 26 claimants to the throne a succession of seemingly endless civil wars and barbarian invasions. At one point the Empire effectively broke into three parts and seemed on the verge of total collapse. Diocletian and his successors managed to pull the Empire back together, but the Empire of the fourth century was very different to earlier periods and new military and administrative structures and priorities meant old institutions changed radically or declined.

Education, particularly in the west, was one thing that changed considerably. A new and vastly enlarged bureaucracy required literate and effective administrators and the former education system gave way to one that emphasised rhetoric and the law over literature and philosophy. As already discussed, the classics were still studied, especially in the east where the Attic Greek in which most of them were written was the literary language of the educated. But in the west an education in Greek increasingly became an option for higher learning rather than the norm and fewer and fewer students progressed to it rather than taking up an administrative, legal or military position. Greek literacy dwindled and therefore the number of Greek works in circulation in the west declined.

By the sixth century some western scholars realised that knowledge of key classical works was declining around them as a result of this loss of the ability to read Greek fluently. In the relative stability of the post-Roman Ostrogoth kingdom, Cassiodorus (c. 485 – c. 585) and Boethius began a program of translation of essential Greek works into Latin. Boethius began by concentrating on works of “dialectic” – the logical works of Aristotle and Porphyry mentioned earlier – and these formed a foundation for all later medieval education. Unfortunately Boethius fell victim to court intrigues and was executed by Theodoric the Great in 524. Cassiodorus established a monastery school at Viviarum that was to become a model for medieval monastic institutions and made the preservation and study of a range of texts, including classical books, central to its activity. He also took the late Roman curriculum of the Seven Liberal Arts – the foundational Trivium (grammar, rhetoric, logic) followed by the more advanced Quadrivium (arithmetic, music, geometry, astronomy) – and made it the core of study in his schools. This too was adopted across the medieval world in the following centuries.

But the long collapse continued with the fall of the Ostrogothic and Vandalic kingdoms in the late sixth century and the hundreds of years of war, economic contraction, political fragmentation and continued invasions that followed. The educational infrastructure established in Late Antiquity survived in monasteries and cathedral schools, but only just. Education was theoretically still based on the Seven Liberal Arts, but in practice this dwindled in many places to the rudiments of grammar and rhetoric and enough arithmetic and astronomy to maintain a calendar and little more. Much Latin literature was neglected as institutions concentrated on the basics only.

This began to change thanks to some unlikely sources of new vigor. Ireland had never been part of the Roman Empire but Christianity established itself there in the fifth century and took on its own unique forms. Contact between Irish monasteries and several in Italy and Gaul in the sixth century meant that works and learning that were neglected and lost in the intellectual low point of the seventh and eighth centuries were preserved in Ireland, including Greek literacy and so some works in Greek. Then Irish missionaries expanded into Britain and continental Europe, establishing what were to become highly influential centres of learning.

Irish monasticism cross-fertilised with the Christianity of the converted Anglo-Saxon kingdoms and so much of this preserved classical knowledge was to be found there when it had been long since lost to most of western Europe. This meant when Charlemagne mandated a program of educational reform and intellectual revival across his vast Frankish realm in the late eighth century, he attracted scholars from Visigothic Spain and northern Italy, but also from Ireland and England. The scholar who led his program of reform was the brilliant Alcuin of York (c. 735-804 AD).

It is hard to over emphasise how close western Europe came to losing the thread of classical learning completely in that period of low ebb or how important the partnership between the warlike Charlemagne and the learned Alcuin was for everything that followed in western intellectual history. Alcuin had been the student of Archbishop Ecgbert of York (d. 766 AD), who in turn had been a student of Bede (c. 673-735 AD), learned abbot of the monastery of Jarrow. Like Bede, both Ecgbert and Alcuin after him were inheritors of the learning preserved in Ireland and transferred to the rest of the British Isles. Both established a versatile educational curriculum that taught all of the Seven Arts and included a wide range of classical authors. In 782 Alcuin became the master of Charlemagne’s Palace School at Aachen. He brought with him both copies of and a love for classical texts. His writings alone show he knew and drew from works of Aristotle, Cicero, Lucan, Pliny, Statius, Trogus Pompeius, Virgil, Ovid, Horace and Terence.

He and the other scholars of the Carolingian Renaissance established a educational system across the Frankish Empire that formed the foundation of the monastic and cathedral schools of the Middle Ages. In doing so, they almost certainly preserved a wide swathe of classical texts that had previously only been found in a few copies scattered across some British monasteries. And they did so just in time. Eleven years before he died he was one of those who recorded the first Viking raid on Lindesfarne in 793 which marked the beginning of a long period of attacks and invasions that destroyed the contents of many monastic libraries in northern Europe.

By the twelfth century the west saw a new period of stablity, prosperity and expansion. Western scholars had long since been aware of what they called the Latinorum penuria – “the poverty of the Latins”. This was a recognition that there were classical works they knew of from references or allusions in the works they did have, but they did not have copies of these lost works. It was also a recognition that other people did have these texts: namely the Byzantine Greeks and Muslim scholars in Sicily and Spain.

The capture of the great Muslim centre of learning in Toledo in 1085 led many scholars to Spain in search of lost books and the Norman conquest of Sicily in 1091 opened up libraries of Arabic, Hebrew and Greek literary treasures. And by the twelfth century scholars flocked to Sicily, southern Italy and Spain to translate these books into Latin and bring them home. One of them was a young Englishman, Daniel of Morley:

I heard that the doctrine of the Arabs, which is devoted almost entirely to the quadrivium, was all the fashion in Toledo in those days, I hurried there as quickly as I could, so that I could hear the wisest philosophers of the world … Eventually my friends begged me to come back from Spain; so, on their invitation, I arrived in England, bringing a precious multitude of books with me.

Over the next two centuries many more “precious multitudes of books” made their way north to the schools and burgeoning universities of Europe and “new” Greek learning began to flood into Europe at precisely the point where the intellectual culture there was ready for stimulation. These scholars were less interested in Greek and Roman plays, poems and histories and much more keen on philosophy, mathematics, medicine, astronomy and natural philosophical proto-science.

These works flowed into a newly vigorous western Europe at exactly the time that more complex political structures and royal and ecclesiastical administrations created a market for scholars. The successful students from the network of cathedral schools set up by Charlemagne and Alcuin and their copiers centuries earlier saw an opportunity and began to take on students of their own. They banded together to form trade unions to pool resources and get privileges from towns and local magnates and the universities were born – the direct ancestors of the modern system of higher learning.

Of course, Grayling is dimly aware of all this, but has to be typically dismissive of it, as it does not fit his agenda:

[I]t took some time before the idea, the necessity, of a more advanced education – or, indeed, even any education – to come back into the picture. The medieval universities were law, medicine and theology. This was because the growing centralisation of power required bureaucrats; required educated people who could write, who could manage taxation, who could … who could run a kingdom … so, you know, this wasn’t just a matter of trying to understand God’s plan for that for the universe. This was a … this was itself a rebirth of an educational ideal that had been founded in classical antiquity.

Yet again, this is a melange of actual facts and total nonsense. Medieval universities were different to the more informally organised schools of the Classical world in that they had a common structure and adopted an idea from craft guilds whereby students could be assessed by their Masters and then granted a “degree” that made them a Master or a Doctor themselves. This in turn would be recognised in any university across Christendom: a system which nurtured a community of agreed and cumulative scholarship that was later to be an incubator for the rise of the Scientific Method.

Grayling’s slightly dismissive reference to how “medieval universities were law, medicine and theology” is actually wrong, or only half right. Those were the higher degrees that a student went on to once they had been granted a degree in the Seven Liberal Arts and that included the study of logic, literature, some astronomy and natural philosophical proto-science – most of which were based squarely on classical texts. Universities may have begun in response to a need for administrators and theologians, but they developed into something much more sophisticated fairly quickly.

Renaissances (plural)

In the cartoonish caricature of history beloved by polemicists like Grayling, “the Renaissance” (singular) is the point where western civilisation is saved from Christian ignorance and the glories of the ancients are rescued from “the dark ages”. To Grayling, the self-conscious revival of Greco-Roman art, architecture, culture and learning in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries rescued us from religious obscurantism and set us on the wide, straight, Whiggish road to becoming … well, us. Here is Grayling waxing lyrical about one of his Renaissance heroes:

[A] very, very significant thing happened in [1492, the] publication of book called ‘On the Errors of Pliny’ by a man called Leonicini [sic – Niccolò Leoniceno] who had gone through the ‘Natural History’ of Pliny and they discovered many, many, many errors there. And this was in itself revolutionary because for so long people had looked at authorities … the fact that so few people were literate that things that were written, scriptures – “it is written and therefore has great authority”. And in the Renaissance, you had the repudiation of that and the insistence that we should look again and think again and make use of our own powers. That’s what led eventually to the liberation of the European mind from efforts to control it by dogma.

Grayling’s childish view of history is populated by “good guys” and “bad guys”. So Aquinas is a “bad guy” because he depends too heavily on authorities like Aristotle (despite Aristotle being a “good guy” – yes, it gets confusing). But his “Leonicini” (sic) is a “good guy” because he doubts ancient authorities like Pliny (who in other parts of Grayling’s fairy tale is also a “good guy”, if you follow) and that marks a dramatic break with the stupidity of the preceding Christian centuries. Or something.

Which is, of course, total nonsense. Medieval scholars certainly did place great store in the words of the ancient auctoritates like Aristotle and Pliny. This is precisely because – contra Grayling – they held them in high esteem as “the ones who know”, after saving them from the wreckage of the collapse of the Roman Empire. But they did not regard them as infallible. As already noted, Aristotle was accepted despite his “error” in believing the cosmos was eternal rather than created. Similarly Plato was held in high regard despite believing many things Christians considered wrong.

And they did not only dismiss the auctoritates when they contradicted theology. Medieval explorers found many of “the errors of Pliny” when they, unlike ancients like Pliny, actually ventured into the distant lands the ancient sage had written about and found much in the old texts was wrong.  John of Marignolli, a far-travelled Papal emissary to the Mongol khans, wrote in 1348 that the monstrous races Pliny thought lived in the far east did not exist, “though there may be an individual monster here and there”. He debunked Pliny’s claim that there was a race of one-footed Sciapods, arguing that this was a garbled account of Indians carrying parasols to shade themselves – “a thing like a little tent-roof on a cane handle [that] they call a chatyr“, noting “I brought one to Florence with me”. Other Papal envoys to the Mongols, like William of Rubruck and John of Montecorvino, were similarly sceptical of Pliny, Solinus and Macrobius, noting that many of the marvels and monsters found in the works of the ancients were clearly fantasies (see “Medieval Maps and Monsters” for details).

Grayling’s “Leonicini”, on the other hand, was actually far less sceptical than these medieval churchmen. The “errors” he wrote of were mainly linguistic ones – fussy quibbles about Pliny mistranslating and misunderstanding his Greek sources. I suspect Grayling has never actually read Leoniceno much beyond the title of his tract. It certainly did not represent the radical intellectual departure he imagines.

Nor was “the Renaissance” the unique break people like Grayling suppose, which is why Holland has to object that “THE Renaissance was not the Renaissance! There were many renaissances.” Holland notes, correctly, the Carolingian Renaissance of Alcuin and Charlemagne and the Twelfth Century Renaissance which saw the influx of lost Greek works into a revived medieval Europe. To these western revivals of learning he could add the eastern intellectual movements such as the Macedonian Renaissance of the tenth century, led by Leo the Mathematician, and the Palaeologan Renaissance of the thirteenth century.

All of these revivals have something in common – they come after a period of prolonged political disintegration and economic decline that led to a decay in learning and a loss of or neglect of texts. And they were instigated by or at least sustained by a new and more stable political order and led by intellectuals who valued and revered ancient learning. Simplistic polemicists like Grayling tend to ignore politics and completely disregard economics, pretending that intellectual movements happen in some kind of rarefied vacuum. So, for him, the decline in learning in the early medieval “dark ages” can only be because of his imaginary book burning Theodosian and Justinianian zealots and not because of anything as trivial as the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, with its attendant political and economic turmoil.

The loss of Greek literacy in the west came after the chaos and near collapse of the third century. The intellectual low ebb of the period before Alcuin and Charlemagne came after the collapse of the Roman Empire. Leo the Mathematician and his fellow scholars led a revival after the long centuries of loss, infighting and turmoil following the Arab conquest of much of the Eastern Empire and the political chaos that followed. It was politics and economics which caused these declines, not religion.

But Grayling does not want to know any of this and so irritably brushes it all aside. The silly historians have simply got it all wrong, he assures us:

[I]t is now the sort of fashion among historians to find any number of renaissances and reformations and so on. And indeed, in a way, there were. But let us remember that Petrarch is the person who made a very explicit claim to the effect that his age was the one in which they had rediscovered and were bringing back into the light the great values that had been suppressed and lost during the darkness of the period that he described as “the age between” – the Middle Age … the medieval period. So this was a self-conscious recognition by people like Petrarch and all those who therefore went mad looking for manuscripts and digging in, you know, old library collections and so on order to get to get manuscripts back.

But it is not “fashion” that causes historians to note that Grayling’s simplistic cartoon is wrong, it is facts. His grudgingly dismissive acceptance that “in a way” the historians are right does not get him off the hook. Petrarch could indulge in his literary hobbies precisely because those earlier renaissances had preserved the ancient texts he loved so much. He could also convince himself that he was the equal of the ancients and pour lofty scorn on the medieval scholars who went before him because they had provided him with shoulders on which to stand. Grayling may decide he wants to agree with Petrarch’s delusions about where he was in the history of western thought and tradition, but that does not make Petrarch’s self-indulgence correct. We know better than Petrarch, despite Grayling’s recalcitrant insistence that this is merely some passing “fashion” among historians. History simply does not agree with Grayling.

This is because Grayling is not interested in history unless he can cherry-pick at it for snippets that he uses to preach a sermon. As Nathan Johnstone’s excellent critique of New Atheist pseudo historiography shows, anti-theistic polemicists like Grayling approach it with their conclusions already firmly fixed in place and then carefully select the “evidence” they believe supports them. They are, as Johnstone puts it “hunter-gatherers” not “explorers”, for whom “the humanities are treated as a grab-bag from which to seize examples of the peculiar malefaction of believers” (The New Atheism, Myth, and History: The Black Legends of Contemporary Anti-Religion, p. 7).

This is why so much of Grayling’s argument with Holland rests on half-remembered anecdotes and vague snippets of story. He is so convinced that his imaginary “systematic” destruction of ancient texts by Christians happened that he has never bothered to actually check his facts. Similarly, he is so righteously outraged at the story of Justinian closing the Academy of Plato and other schools and driving the philosophers into exile that he has never taken the time to notice that this never happened. He simply knows that Christians had little or nothing to do with the transmission of ancient texts, so he has never bothered to actually study the subject and discover they were actually integral to it.

The sad fact is that Grayling is a highly intelligent man and, in his field (philosophy) he is very learned. The tragedy is not that he is profoundly ignorant of history, though he most certainly is. It is rather than this ignorance is completely self-imposed. He has trapped himself in a stupid and erroneous story about the past that is so emotionally important to him that he cannot break out of it. He does not even know he is trapped. Yet again, prejudices and bigotry have made a smart man very, very stupid.

Further Reading

Marcia L. Colish, Medieval Foundations of the Western Intellectual Tradition (Yale University Press, 1997)

Edward Grant, God and Reason in the Middle Ages, (Cambridge University Press, 2001)

Edward Grant, The Foundations of Modern Science in the Middle Ages (Cambridge University Press, 1996)

David C. Lindberg, “Myth 1: That the Rise of Christianity was Responsible for the Demise of Ancient Science” in Ronald L Numbers (ed.) Galileo Goes to Jail and Other Myths about Science and Religion, (Harvard University Press, 2009) pp. 8-19

L.D. Reynolds and N.G. Wilson’s Scribes and Scholars: A Guide to the Transmission of Greek and Latin Literature, (Oxford University Press, 2016)

155 thoughts on “The Great Myths 8: The Loss of Ancient Learning

  1. Thank you for your work, it is always interesting and often introduces me to new things I did not know before and gives me new facts to ponder and new authors to read.

    I appreciate the honesty and good faith of an atheist giving the benefit of the doubt to Christians and looking for the facts where they can be found, even if that contradicts the convenient myths on *both* sides.

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    1. “the benefit of the doubt to Christians”
      As far as atheist me is concerned it’s not a matter of benefit or doubt. It’s a matter of what I propagate: accept the facts, whether convenient or not. What’s so enormously annoying about New Atheists is that they make this claim and act the opposite of it.

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      1. It’s a good corrective, but a bit silly to pretend that only ‘new atheists’ are misusing history. For every atheist making shit arguments, there are probably a hundred theists doing it worse.

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        1. Sure. Who has said otherwise? No-one here. The problem is that there are plenty of people correcting the made up bullshit of the theists, but few atheists are calling out the bullshit of people like Grayling and co. Given that the New Atheists preach long and loud about others who fail to check their facts, ignore expert consensus and cling to faith positions that are not backed up by evidence, their hypocrisy when it comes to their own bungling of history is pretty galling to the rest of us who are also atheists but happen to be historically literate.

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  2. A key pillar that Grayling built his ediface is the edicts of Theodosius. I was meaning to look that up (and didn’t get round to it). Here, you say that its target was Christian heresy. That’s a pretty flimsy pillar.

    Is there any evidence that this may have been interpreted any wider and pagan books were targetted?

    Thanks these posts. I find them really helpful

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    1. “Is there any evidence that this may have been interpreted any wider and pagan books were targetted?”

      None. I’ve been getting people who claim this Imperially-mandated “systematic” destruction happened to show me any evidence for it for about 30 years now and they never can.

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    2. “the edicts of Theodosius”
      Another question those self declared skeptics never ask is why those edicts had to be repeated that often. The simplest answer is that they didn’t work, because christian fanatics didn’t have the means to eradicate most of the texts, destroy most of the temples and kill of most of the pagans. All this on the assumptions that those christian fanatics indeed tried. Had they been successfull, maybe two edicts would have been enough.
      The overall historical consensus now is that pagans and christians usually got along pretty well. There were clashes, sure. The hasty generalization New Atheists like Grayling are so fond of is sometimes called the Mount Everest Fallacy.

      https://www.livius.org/articles/theory/everest-fallacy/

      We must conclude that Grayling doesn’t care more about coherence than the average creationist, alas.

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  3. A fair bit of what you say above, I was taught in the Medieval Phil course I took last term, e.g. the taking up of Plato and Aristotle into Christian theology, the preservation of Aristotle by Syriac monks. A hell of a lot of medieval philosophy was basically Catholics riffing on P & A. How can a professional philosopher be that wrong about stuff that is standardly taught to undergraduates?

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    1. Most professional philosophers probably don’t have a good grasp of every era of the history of philosophy, alot of them don’t even have a good grasp of various strands of contemporary philosophy that is outside of what they specialize in/are interested in. That said it is troubling that he recently published a book on the history of philosophy. It’s telling that the page Tim linked to claims

      “But since the long-popular classic, Bertrand Russell’s History of Western Philosophy, first published in 1945, there has been no comprehensive and entertaining, single-volume history of this great intellectual journey.”

      I guess the key word there is “entertaining,” Russell’s book is a fun read but large portions of it are very inaccurate.

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          1. That’s pretty close to his exact quote. It comes right after he quotes Gibbon’s description of her death, which Russell calls Cyril of Alexandria’s “chief claim to fame. “

  4. “At its first encounter with real history, the whole thing comes crashing down.”
    Even before, because Grayling and co don’t even manage to construct a coherent story.

    “in western Europe the period leading up to the ninth century”
    Too modest. The Carolingian Renaissance was very temporary.

    “But this was not because of any imaginary campaign of destruction or neglect by wicked Christians.”
    You point out that the Vikings came along later as well. What would be Grayling’s response? That those Vikings were nice toddler-huggers, with deep respect for texts they didn’t understand and had no use for? Also I’d be curious what nonsense Grayling sucks out of his big fat thumb to explain the splendid scholarship of Johannes Scotus Eriugena.

    “intellectuals there were – all of whom were churchmen – were left to pick up and piece together the fragments that remained”
    Exactly. And successfully, given the quick rise of scholasticism at the end of the 11th Century CE.

    “Grayling find it impossible to imagine that the texts of great works could simply be lost”
    Ha! I can ride my hobby-horse again. Just like creationists can’t imagine that over 95% of all fossils are lost forever.

    “Then Irish missionaries expanded into …..”
    Yeah, they became pretty close to defeating RCC orthodoxy. In the end Frankish power prevailed.

    “It is hard to over emphasise how close western Europe came to losing the thread of classical learning completely”
    My favourite bit of evidence is a letter from the Bishop of Utrecht (a compatriot of mine, haha) from the 10th Century who was stunned when he learned that doubling the dimensions of a cube meant that the volume would become eight times as large. This city was founded by the Romans in the 1st Century and became Frankish later. It became an archdiocese in 695 CE.

    “The capture of the great Muslim centre of learning in Toledo in 1085”
    To which I happily add that the first European university (after the islamic ones, of course) opened only three years later. I find it hard to believe that this is coincidence. It’s a fine example of christian anti-scholarship! [/sarcasm, just in case]

    “Grayling is dimly aware of all this”
    This is very charitable. I learned the key elements at primary school.

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  5. A great essay as always. One can’t emphasise enough when discussing the Arabic appropriation and transmission of ancient Greek knowledge that the initial source of their translation was the Syriac Christians, who had already translated the Greek texts into Syriac. The second major source for the Arabs was direct from Greek from manuscripts obtained mostly from Constantinople and Alexandria both at the time Christian cities.
    So, rather than destroying Greek knowledge the Christian cultures of antiquity actively conserved it.

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  6. “To Grayling, the self-conscious revival of Greco-Roman art, architecture, culture and learning”
    Yeah, that’s why in the 15the Century CE so many Italian and later Dutch/Flexish astronomers tried to replace the Ptolemaean model. Spoiler: exactly zero.

    Even in the 15th and 16th Century there were at least three. THE Renaissance usually refers to the Italian one, which produced very few important scholars. Macchiavelli is a huge exception. The Flemish/Dutch one only produced Erasmus. It’s the Polish one, which was very much stimulated by the local RCC authorities, that produced Copernicus.
    As Bertrand Russell already pointed out in History of Western Philosophy most Renaissance scholars did exactly what Grayling claims to despise: uncritically admire the wise men from Antiquity. There is a reason why Grayling’s hero Petrarca is mainly remembered for his poetry and prose – how much useful stuff did he contribute to say natural philosophy?

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    1. On the other hand, the Italian Renaissance gave us a lot of knowledge of poisons to get rid of inconvenient relatives.

  7. Hi, you wrote:
    “Unfortunately, Persia did not prove the idyllic refuge they imagined and a few years later they petitioned to come home and were accepted back into the Empire.”
    If Christians(Justinian?) where so tolerant, why did Damascius need to petition (a peace treaty?) to let non-Christian philosophers in? I think you just made Grayling’s point how difficult the life was for non-Christian philosophers under Justinian Christianity.

    “So what about Grayling’s dramatic claim that “the philosophers were driven out”? Again, this is a bit of myth.” Why was this a myth when philosophers needed a petition to enter christian country?

    You said that “by the time the late Roman Empire converted to Christianity, forms of Neoplatonism were the dominant philosophical force”. But you also told us that their main neo-Platonist school was a “pale imitation” and a “small private school”. Something here does not add up here. Either is was a dominant force or not, before it was shut down.

    why did Christians needed to close the neo-Platonist academy if that was only a “pale imitation” of the original one?

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    1. “If Christians(Justinian?) where so tolerant, why did Damascius need to petition (a peace treaty?) to let non-Christian philosophers in?”

      Because the Roman and Persian Empires were at war (thus the peace treaty).

      “But you also told us that their main neo-Platonist school was a “pale imitation” and a “small private school”. Something here does not add up here. “

      There were various forms of Neoplatonism. Neoplatonism generally was the dominant philosophical tradition by the later Empire and most forms of it were entirely compatible with Christianity. That’s why Hypatia’s school in Alexandria was not only perfectly acceptable to the Christian authorities of that city but had prominent Christians among its pupils. But the small Neoplatonic Academy in Athens was of a much more esoteric branch of Iamblichan Neoplatonism that was far more mystical, much more devoted to theurgy and militantly pagan. Other forms of Neoplatonism were flourishing, but this side branch was small and dwindling by Justinian’s time.

      “why did Christians needed to close the neo-Platonist academy if that was only a “pale imitation” of the original one?”

      They didn’t “shut it down”. The local authorities simply applied Justinian’s edict and refused to give it any more public money. Without that, the small school couldn’t survive so they shut themselves down.

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      1. “Because the Roman and Persian Empires were at war (thus the peace treaty).”
        But the case was after the war, time after the peace treaty was signed… why would non-Christian philosophers have a problem returning to Rome after the war?

        “Hypatia’s school in Alexandria was not only perfectly acceptable to the Christian authorities of that city but had prominent Christians among its pupils”
        This just showed how Christians would dictate which philosophers where allowed to teach and who needed a peace treaty even to enter the country. This is just making Grayling’s point.

        “They didn’t “shut it down”.”
        Let’s be honest here. Justinian’s edict states that “so we permit only those who are of the orthodox faith to teach and accept a public stipend”. The prohibition against teaching is general. John Malalas reports ‘The Emperor issued a decree and sent it to Athens ordering that no one should teach philosophy nor astrology and outlawed divination with dice’ This is from James Hannah, a christian historian also referring to Byzantine sixth century chronicler John Malalas
        So let’s be honest, Justinian shut down the Neoplatonic Academy.

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        1. “But the case was after the war, time after the peace treaty was signed… why would non-Christian philosophers have a problem returning to Rome after the war?”

          The Persians and the Romans were in a state of on again/off again war for centuries. You think some dudes could just decided to stroll across a semi-hostile frontier without asking for official sanction first?

          “This just showed how Christians would dictate which philosophers where allowed to teach and who needed a peace treaty even to enter the country. This is just making Grayling’s point.”

          Grayling’s actual “point” was that there were no academies or schools at all and all the philosophers fled. Which is total bullshit. And they did not need “a peace treaty even to enter the country”. They took advantage of one of the periodic Roman-Persian peace treaties to get official permission to cross the border.

          “The prohibition against teaching is general.”

          The prohibition against overtly pagan schools teaching on the taxpayer’s dime is general. Pagan schools could still operate, but had to fund themselves. And this edict was, like all these edicts, only enforced if the local officials decided to. The Athenian ones did.

          “So let’s be honest, Justinian shut down the Neoplatonic Academy.”

          Indirectly, sure. So? Grayling’s fantasy that this mystical school of theurgic kooks closing down spelled the end of ancient learning is total and utter bullshit.

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          1. Hey Tim, really enjoyed your article, very nice summary.

            Wanting to learn more, I looked up the source you provided on the Neoplatonic Academy, the article “Justinian, Malalas and the End of Athenian Philosophical Teaching in A.D. 529”, really comprehensive (PDF here https://tinyurl.com/yddtfqfh).

            Now I’m kind of puzzled, because the author certainly considers that the philosophers didn’t just leave because the money dried up. For example, quoting from page 180:

            “Two years after the teaching of philosophy was prohibited, Damascius and six members of his inner circle decided to leave Athens and travel to Persia. Their journey is known from an account by the historian Agathias.88 Agathias speaks of them as the best philosophers of his age and indicates that they chose to emigrate because their religion made it ‘impossible for them to live without fear of the laws’ in the Roman Empire.s9 To protect their freedom to live as they pleased, Damascius and his associates travelled to the Persian court of Chosroes.”

            Or from page 181:

            “Damascius apparently chose to leave the Roman Empire because the provisions of CJ I. I 1.9 and 10o changed the legal status of pagans in a way that particularly threatened the lifestyle of himself and his followers. Although the prohibition of teaching had made it impossible to collect student tuition, the school could still receive financial bequests from supporters.99 CJ 1.I1.9 eliminated this possibility and forced Damascius to consider running his philosophical circle without any financial support.100 Even more severe were the terms of CJ i. 1.10. According to it, the houses in which the philosophers lived and the property upon which they were supporting themselves were now subject to seizure.’01 From their earlier experiences, Damascius and his colleagues must have known that both the Athenian Christian community and the provincial assembly had sufficient influence to convince the governor of Achaea to enforce laws like this.”

            It certainly seems that they weren’t persecuted for their “secular/scientific teachings”, however, it seems that indeed there was some factor of actual persecution.

          2. These are fair points and the reason I cited Watts’ article was so anyone who wanted to research the issue further could read up on it and see that it was not the simplistic story Grayling presents. An earlier draft went into the maybes that Watts explores in more detail, but I had to reduce the word count in an already lengthy piece, so I summarised things into the two paragraphs you see above. I don’t think I misrepresent things by saying that there was no edict that targeted the Neplatonic Academy directly, that the general edict was about funding and that the consequences did not require any fleeing into exile – that was a choice. This is not to say that the edict and its sequels made life easy for pagan philosophers who wanted to teach, but what Grayling’s lurid claims are pretty much nonsense nonetheless.

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          3. As for the temples, their destruction had less to do with Christian zeal than with the needs for new construction. Temples, unless repurposed as churches, were basically abandoned buildings and treated as quarries for a long time. Think of it, you need stones for your house, and next to you is an empty building that is collecting trash and rats, why not reuse the materials?

          4. “Astrology and divination by dice” This paints a better picture of the pagan world than the philosophy texts read by an educated elite. Classical Antiquity was riddled with superstition. If you doubt it, consider that Rome had an augur, a public official, paid by tax money, whose job was to predict the future by looking at bird entrails.

    2. > If Christians(Justinian?) where so tolerant, why did Damascius need to petition (a peace treaty?) to let non-Christian philosophers in?

      They needed to petition the government, because that’s the NORM for moving across international borders. Last time I visited America I had to “petition” the US government for permission, and I was travelling from Australia, which is one of the US’s closest allies.

      Certainly because of our societies’ desire for easy international travel it was a very simple petition process (basically an online form, and then another paper form I filled out on arrival at the US airport), but it’s normal to require permission from the government you’re travelling to before being allowed to travel.

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    1. But? Even if it was not true that 1) pagan religious/cosmological beliefs like astrology were not destroyed by Christians, with 2) similar pagan philosophy and 3) religion, religious knowledge? Then what about the 4) massive extra-textual evidence of a huge decline from Roman realism, from the visual arts, to the more unrealistic Christian era paintings, and even Orthodox iconoclastic opposition to all pictures?

      The notion of such a decline remains firm in the Study of Art, if not texts. Due to lots of visual evidence. As does the notion of at least an ART “renaissance” or rebirth of Roman realism. From looking not at books, or texts. But at paintings and sculpture.

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      1. “what about the 4) massive extra-textual evidence of a huge decline from Roman realism, from the visual arts, to the more unrealistic Christian era paintings”

        First of all, the development of a more iconographic style in later Roman art predated Christianity and was not somehow caused by it. Secondly, – “decline“? That realistic art is somehow superior and a transition to a more stylised form of art is therefore a “decline” is a quaintly old fashioned idea. Are you really saying this?

        I also can’t see how your strange comment above is a reply to Benjamin Lammertz saying “very well researched and written, as always”.

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        1
        1. Brett’s comment, if it’s intended to buttress the ‘christian = bad’ thesis is even stranger, because the development of realistic art / perspective in Europe (beginning in the late 1300s/early 1400s) happened under a Christian culture, and was often if not mostly religious in theme, and patronised by the RCC.

          And he ignores your main point that the decline of X Y Z and whatever you’re having can better be explained by, oh, I don’t know, economic collapse and small events like Barbarian invasions.

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      2. I’m not dead certain exactly what connection astrology and realism in art share, but the general change from the realistic towards the more symbolic and stylised began well before Constantine. After all, there is a reason why eventually the face in the coin started to like *the* Emperor rather than *an* emperor, the exalted office rather than the man. And, you know, artists do explore their art.

        And while the clash of iconoclasts and iconophiles/iconodules is an interesting question of Byzantine social and cultural history
        well worth looking at more closely – current scholarly consensus boils down to “it’s complicated” – surely iconodulism has been mainstream Orthodoxy virtually throughout its history?

        Besides, art is very much in the eye of the beholder. I personally find art from the late Empire and early Middle Ages endlessly fascinating and constantly inventive, whereas to some eyes they may seem like a retrograde step. But that kind of thinking can lead you somewhere you may not necessarily want to go: start comparing 19th-century Western painting to early 21st-century painting, especially when it comes to realism, and then correlate it with the status of religion in the West, particularly with the ascendancy of atheism, ah well…

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        1
        1. “But that kind of thinking can lead you somewhere you may not necessarily want to go: start comparing 19th-century Western painting to early 21st-century painting”

          Exactly. I’ve comes across this weird “Christianity caused a DECLINE in art because realism” claim before and often respond by saying “so, you’re not a fan of Picasso then?” It’s a rather odd and very old fashioned idea about what “good” art is.

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          1
          1. To clarify: lots of Roman art was very realistic; that was lost for a thousand years, during Christianity, till the Renaissance.

            It might indeed be hard to bemoan a new, non-realistic religious art, on strictly aesthetic grounds. But? Realistic pictures are very important for the development of Science. And without them? Science would logically have suffered.

            1
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          2. “Realistic pictures are very important for the development of Science.”

            They are?

            “And without them? Science would logically have suffered.”

            “Logically”? The only science I can think of that benefited from realistic artistic representation is anatomy. And that revived in the Middle Ages, but had stagnated in the Roman period. And anatomy only benefited from artistic realism thanks to the printing press (a medieval invention) which allowed propogation of the results of anatomical dissections. Anatomy was already flourishing by that time.

            So, pardon?

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          3. @Weston:
            “To clarify: lots of Roman art was very realistic; that was lost for a thousand years, during Christianity, till the Renaissance.”
            Have you got any examples of these works of “Roman art” you’re alleging?

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          4. @Tim O’Neill
            The perspective technique in painting and sketching has had an impact upon mathematics. Particularly in perspective geometry.

            However; as far as I’ve always been aware this was a technique that evolved in Renaissance-era central Italy and without any prior inspiration from the Romans.

          5. @Weston: please point me out the realism in a Feynman diagram. Or are you saying post-WW2 physics suffered from this stylistic representation? Or perhaps you’re simply talking nonsense?

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          6. In standard Art History, Romans are considered “Realists.” Both for their 1) brutal political cynicism and military suppressions. But also their 2) architectural engineering. And also 3) their other realistic art. Paintings found in Pompeii paintings. But 4) also especially in statues, portraits of emperors .

            Realism is not always admired in every way. But it is useful . To in fact anatomy. And early biology: observations of nature and animals. And even say, astronomy.

            Science today is possibly largely about math. But accurate visual pictures (photos) remain a VERY major part of Science. Even today.

            No doubt anatomy progressed somewhat in the post Roman millennium. But? No doubt a more sophisticated and realistic technique would have helped.

            In particular, the sporadic Orthodox prohibition on all realistic pictures is thought to have partly crippled the Eastern church and empire. Which finally collapsed.

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          7. “But it is useful . To in fact anatomy. And early biology: observations of nature and animals. And even say, astronomy.”

            Please show us examples of all the Roman realistic depictions of anatomy, biology, “observations of nature and animals” and astronomy.

            “the sporadic Orthodox prohibition on all realistic pictures is thought to have partly crippled the Eastern church and empire. Which finally collapsed.”

            Yes. A whole 600 years after iconoclasm was condemned as a heresy. So, obviously a key cause in the fall of the Byzantine Empire.

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          8. @Weston: scientists rely on evidence; you mainly produce words. Do you know who have the same approach as you?
            Creationists.

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            1
          9. @Weston
            there’s a stark difference between artistic depictions and geometrical works needed for (i.e.) architectural engineering or maths: often they’re not even drawn by the same people.

    2. As evidence of Roman realism, including anatomical correctness, and its decline in the Christian era, standard Art History typically compares Greek and then Roman busts, of emperors like Vespacian. With the later, wide-eyed mosaic of Constantine. Q. v .

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      1. Assuming COVID-19 allows me to, I hope to present a paper on Hellenistic Art of this era at the A.A.R. meeting in Boston in November. I will honestly assert that Christianity is NOT responsible for the degradation of art in these decades. The crisis of the third century was perhaps the culprit. Artisans were not employed to make realistic sculptures of Roman aristocrats who were too-regularly being murdered by their rivals. The artisans retreated into the hinterlands of the Hellenistic Orient where Hellenistic art was positively fluorescing under the contemporaneous Parthian regime. Later Christian art regained some realism as the talented artisans returned to Rome in following the post-Diocletian stabilization. The fact that this period corresponds to Christianization is merely an example of correlation which does not correspond to causation. The decline of realism was independent of Christianization.

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    3. Here’s a standard article on Roman sculpture. Comparing it to pre-Renaissance Christian sculpture, the vast majority of professional Art Historians found the Roman art to be more realistic, naturalistic, accurate.

      It is typically said that the Christian emphasis on spiritual, versus non-“world”ly things, led them to take less care with the appearances of the world around them. And to enlarge the eyes often, as the “windows of the soul. ”

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_sculpture

      1. Your own Wiki link clearly states that this change in Roman sculpture “preceded the period in which Christianity was adopted by the Roman state”.

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        1. It may have preceded 1) official allowance and 2) then wholehearted adoption of Christianity as dogma, in Rome. But it was largely 3) within the formative period when, precisely, Christianity was beginning to make itself important and influential.

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          1. Sorry, but this story of yours is getting more and more unconvincing. The fact that late Roman art was already developing away from the rather stale conventions of realism into a more dynamic symbolic direction (see – isn’t loaded descriptive language fun?!) BEFORE Christianity means your claim that this change was caused by Christianity fails.

            Art changes. It always has. To try to divide it into “good” and “bad” art and describe the transition from one to the other via emotive language about “decline” etc is total nonsense. And throwing in mono-causal simplistic crap like “it was caused by Christianity” is even more stupid. Please take this childish pseudo historical garbage elsewhere.

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      2. @Weston: “Roman art to be more realistic, naturalistic, accurate”
        Nobody denied this.
        What you haven’t done, what haven’t even tried, is producing evidence for this fact causing “science would ….. have suffered” (which is what you maintain). Actually I have presented evidence – the Feynman diagram – that there is no correlation at all, let alone causation.
        On the dots you put “logically”. That’s like a creationist pointing at something remarkable in an animal or a plant and maintaining that this “logically points at an intelligent immaterial mind” without any further do.
        Science doesn’t work that way.

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        1. Science depends in part 1) on logic and math. But 2) also optical observations. And then good pictures of what they see.

          The article on roman statues cited above, notes that Pliny was descrying a decline in Roman realism … even c. 60 AD, and the very early Christian era. And he objected to that in part, in effect, because he was an early proto-scientist, a “naturalist.” Who valued accurate pictures, as an aid to more exact observation and explorations. And reports.

          Art changes over time. But art history notes that it changes in part because of new social, cultural developments; like say, the appearance of a new religion.
          And Pliny the naturalist didn’t like the changes he was seeing in the early days of Christianity. Changes attributed by many to an often explicit iconoclastic antinaturalist bias in Christianity, in favor of spiritual things, holy ghosts. Not scientific observation of the natural world.

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          1. “And Pliny the naturalist didn’t like the changes he was seeing in the early days of Christianity. “

            What absolute garbage. In Pliny’s time what we call “Christianity” was a microscopically tiny Jewish cult of no significance or influence whatsoever. It was not going to have any influence on Roman culture for about three more centuries. Stop babbling such utter crap.

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          2. No, they weren’t “infamous”. They were a minor sect, at best. Writing in c. 114 Ad Tacitus had to explain who they were to his readers. Around the same time Pliny had to write to the emperor for guidance on how he should punish them. They were a tiny sect. Not influential on anything at all, let alone on artistic styles.

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          3. You just sunk your argument. If there was a noticeable shift in Roman art styles as early as 60 CE, how do you lay that at the feet of Christianity, which didn’t reach dominance until centuries after that?

  8. nitpick on Edessa (aka Admé, aka Antiochia Callirrhoe, aka Şanlı Urfa) –

    It was on the Roman side of the Euphrates. When the Sasanians conquered it, they always ended up having to give it up. Until Islam.

    Nisibis was, yes, by contrast more on the Iranian side of that border although its place was more volatile, especially after the Roman focus eastward.

  9. Thanks for that. Somewhat at a tangent, I’ve read somewhere that the Scholastics pioneered most of the technical apparatus of modern scholarly texts: most of punctuation, paragraphs, tables of contents, alphabetical indexes, running heads, and above all, the systematic referencing of sources.

    1. A great step forward was the adoption of the codex as opposed to the scroll. Codex meant page numbering and indexes (specially thematic indexes). Try creating a thematic index on a scroll.

  10. Thank you again Tim. That was fascinating.
    I wish someone would make some sort of Netflix series discussing the actual Medieval history, rather than the nonsensical version so many people believe in.

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    1. You may like the YouTuber Shadiversity’s videos on this period, some of which rebut the same myths as this blog.

  11. Thank you so much for writing this article!

    The claim that all early Christians were fanatical obscurantists who despised all knowledge and intentionally destroyed most of classical literature is one that I find myself almost constantly having to refute.

    I do have to make a correction, though, about something you say about Sappho. I wrote an entire article in December 2019 refuting the popular claim that medieval Christians intentionally burned all of Sappho’s poems because she was a lesbian. You, mercifully, do not try to argue that Christians gathered up all Sappho’s texts and burned them, but you nonetheless say that Sappho’s sexuality is a major reason why so many of her works have been lost. For my own part, I seriously doubt that the loss of most of Sappho’s poems had much of anything to do with her sexuality.

    The first major reason why so many poems of Sappho have been lost is, of course, because she wrote in the Aeolic dialect, which later authors regarded as obscure, archaic, and hard to read. It was known for its many unusual archaisms and innovations not found in other Greek dialects. The Roman writer Apuleius (lived c. 124 – c. 170 AD) specifically comments on how the Aeolic dialect in which Sappho and Alkaios wrote was so strange and difficult to read. Many other people in Roman times certainly agreed with him.

    The second major reason why so many of Sappho’s poems have been lost is because the entire genre of lyric poetry in general became less popular in late antiquity as elite audiences became more interested in rhetoric and speeches. Lyric poems didn’t tend to appeal to the very practical-minded, rhetoric-centered tastes of the late antique and Byzantine periods.

    There are three reasons why I think the loss of Sappho’s poems probably has very little to do with her sexuality. The first reason is because, although several of Sappho’s surviving poems (such as the “Ode to Aphrodite” and the “Phainetai Moi”) are clearly homoerotic in character, for some reason, in antiquity, she was not normally associated with homosexual activity between women.

    Instead, in late antiquity, Sappho was ironically primarily remembered for a famous legend that probably originated with a comic playwright in the fourth century BC about how she fell so madly in love with the beautiful ferryman Phaon that, when he came to disrespect and devalue her, she leapt off the cliffs of Cape Lefkada in an act of suicide. The love between Sappho and Phaon is described in Ovid’s Heroides and Sappho’s suicide is even depicted in a painting from the Porta Maggiore Basilica.

    In texts from late antiquity, there are a lot more references to this legend than there are to Sappho being lover of women. Oftentimes, even when Sappho is associated with female homosexuality, it is only so that the author can dismiss the charge as an idle slander. The fact that she was primarily remembered as a lover of beautiful men may have something to do with what you said about her poems being more often praised than read.

    The second reason why I don’t think the loss of her poems has much to do with her sexuality is because, even though people like to talk about Sappho’s poems being “erotic,” they really aren’t very sexually explicit. The act of sex is routinely hinted at and implied, but never described. By contrast, there are far, far more sexually explicit works from antiquity that have been preserved by Christian copyists, such as the comedies of Aristophanes, Martial’s Epigrams, and the Priapeia. Compared to these works, which have been preserved in their entireties, Sappho’s poems would make a very strange target for Christian prudery.

    Finally, of all the archaic Greek lyric poets, Sappho is actually one of the luckiest. A vastly larger proportion of Sappho’s works have survived than has survived for the vast majority of all early Greek lyric poets. For the vast majority of archaic Greek lyric poets, we only have maybe a couple lines of their work at best. For many of them, all we have is their name and nothing else.

    With Sappho, though, we have one poem that is actually complete, roughly ten other poems that are nearly complete, and a large number of other poems that have survived in substantial portions. Altogether we have nearly seven hundred lines of her work, which may not seem like a lot compared to, say, Pindar or Theocritus, but compared to most other lyric poets, it’s an absolutely massive quantity.

    Instead of thinking in terms of why so much of Sappho’s work has been lost, I think we should be thinking in terms of why so much of her work has survived.

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  12. As always a well-documented and informative article. Grayling’s barrage of Gibbonian myths in that exchange certainly deserved a fuller refutation than poor Tom Holland could reasonably be expected to give.

    I wonder if there was ever a moment during that exchange when a little voice inside Grayling’s head said “Oh dear, I’m out of my depth here! Clearly, there is more to being an historian than just reiterating what it says in old books.” Judging by what Tim highlights here, any such impulse must have been overridden by the impulse to (try to) save face and cling to biases.

    Grayling joins a long list of clever people who simply haven’t realised that history is an evolving body of knowledge, not a set of established facts that naturally prop up their world view. Throughout the exchange, Grayling seems to treat Holland as someone with no particular expertise in history and Holland’s refutations of his embarrassing factoids (e.g. ius prima nocte) as mere annoyance. This suggests a basic lack of respect for history as an academic discipline.
    Did Grayling in all his career never sit at high table with historians and asked them what they’re doing?

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  13. Many thanks for another enjoyable and informative article; I first encountered Reynolds – Wilson as an undergraduate fifty years ago and it still remains an enjoyable and stimulating book. The relationship between Christians and the classics is a fascinating one, the first two centuries culminating in Clement and Origen is the subject of my part-time thesis. Clement with some justification can be called the Christian Plutarch; twenty per cent of the surviving fragments of Heraclitus (an interesting pre-Socratic philosopher) are found only in Clement. Clement obviously enjoyed Classical literature – I have admired your poem, O Homer, – even if he did not always approve of their lubricious subject matter. Equally Euripides and Menander gained his approval – and he often interweaves classical and biblical texts with consummate skill. Though Origen had an excellent classical education, it is only in the Contra Celsum that he actually cites classical authors. In the surviving Greek works, mostly commentaries , Origen never cites Greek authors, and Plato is usually designated as one of the philosophers. It may well be that Origen thought commentaries were not a suitable vehicle for classical learning. (Equally it might be an aspect of Origen’s ascetic nature). What is important is that Clement and Origen are not opposed to classical learning; as Tim rightly points out, classical writings could be seen as insights into the nature of God.
    It is also quite possible that the narrowing of the school syllabus had started before the dominance of Christianity – Wilamovitz “blamed” (almost certainly erroneously) a school teacher in the middle of the 3rd century CE. Even a popular author like Menander did not enter the canon of school authors and so was not preserved until the fortuitous rediscovery of a complete play and several extensive remains. As a Christian, I am fully aware of the many failings of the church, but this is not one that can be laid at its feet.
    A typo – Cassiodorus monastery was Viviarum. Once again many thanks for an enjoyable article – it broke the tedium of the covid-19 lockdown.

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  14. “He has trapped himself in a stupid and erroneous story about the past that is so emotionally important to him that he cannot break out of it. ”

    More like he he does not want to break out of it. The man and others like him are determined in their beliefs that they find satisfaction, or rather think that they do stuck in their little bubble.

    Or like you said in the previous post, “Never able to emerge from a kind of juvenile angry apostasy,” it is not that they can’t emerge, is that they simply choose not to. These types are determined to stay in this edgy phase indefinitely willfully. Likely because it gives them a high in life, or they think it makes them feel big and/or important.

    They basically traded one fundamentalism for another. That is what it comes off to me as.

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    1. Unfortunately scholarly monographs like Johnston’s are published with the budgets of academic libraries in mind, not those of the average reader.

    2. @Simon: Managed to buy the e-book on sale on Amazon for “only” 27 euros. Maybe a similar offer pops up in the near future.

  15. Would love to read a piece on the contribution of Irish monks. My understanding is that the book ‘How the Irish saved Civilization’ is rotten, the usual hokum to appeal to Irish Americans – but it would be great to hear your accurate take on that.

    Great stuff as always, cheers.

    1. Cahill’s book is silly mainly because it exaggerates everything it touches on. So Irish monks don’t just, as I summarise in my article above, preserve some texts that are lost elsewhere in Europe, but somehow singlehandedly save everything worth preserving. Cahill is also a terrible writer.

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          1. Presumably the same people who hid Lucretius away in a dungeon ( according to Cosmos ). You know, Jesuits.

    2. Problem with the history of Ireland from 400 – 800 CE is lack of sources. Moreover Vikings from 800 CE on did an excellent job destroying Irish civilization. This means that monks on the continent, who had to endure endless violence as well in this period, deserve praise for saving what they could save. This btw is acknowledged by Bertrand Russell.
      Of course you never hear antitheists like Grayling pointing this out. Why bother with facts if you have a conclusion that makes you feel that good?

    1. How about writing those things on Reddit Badhistory? Many Redditor would read them and know what are wrong.

  16. I am reading Grayling’s book at present. He references the closure of the Athens Academy many times, but never mentions the long period in which there is no Academy between Sulla and the 4th century.

    What is interesting is that he actually mentions Sulla’s sack of Athens at one point… and completely leaves out the Academy. Like, doesn’t mention it at all. Surely ignorance cannot be the excuse here.

  17. “This means they held to a semi-Gnostic cosmology whereby humans were mired in a physical world that separated them from their true intellectual and spiritual nature.”

    I couldn’t find a good reference to Iamblichus and Proclus as being influenced by Gnostic at all. So it seems bizarre to me to describe them as semi Gnostic, as Plotinus wrote an attack against the Gnostics on many of the lines you ascribed to them.

    At least for Plotinus, the human soul operated in the realm of the soul, and all human souls had a highest intellective part. And that it would be a mistake to say that humans were “mired” in the physical world, since he was trying to avoid matter as a principle of evil, but instead as mere imperfection.

    Iamblichus and Proclus would have taken this to be very serious, so I have my doubts that they would have seen their works as Gnostic at all, since both were devout pagans who defended pagan ritual, and a fairer comparison would have been “reformed paganism.” Though you are usually well researched and careful, so if you have a source that backs you up, I do not have anything that says they expanded on the anti-Gnostic work of Plotinus.

    If it is just a turn of phrase to help clarify for the modern reader I would say that I think it is a little misleading, since Plotinus was anti Gnostic, and while the Gnostics drew upon the same middle Platonist influences as Plotinus, so did Origen. And while it is possible later Gnostics borrowed from Plotinus, Augustine and the Cappedocians borrowed just as much from him as the Gnostics did.

    Anyways, love the site, think the work you do is excellent, just thought in this case you might want to double check , and if you have historical notes for the claim, please share them

    1. I couldn’t find a good reference to Iamblichus and Proclus as being influenced by Gnostic at all.

      That would be because they weren’t. And I didn’t say they were.

      So it seems bizarre to me to describe them as semi Gnostic,

      I’m saying that their cosmology was, in some ways, similar to that of the Gnostics. Because both were influenced by earlier Platonic ideas.

      If it is just a turn of phrase to help clarify for the modern reader I would say that I think it is a little misleading

      No-one else seems to have had a problem understanding what I’m saying.

      in this case you might want to double check , and if you have historical notes for the claim, please share them

      No need – see above.

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  18. Hi Tim,
    same guy asking seemingly unanswerable questions here. In the past, when I’ve been confronted with the question of why we have so little a percentage of ancient grecoroman literature, I’ve pointed out that hundreds and hundreds of works of other cultures have been lost (i always make the example of Parthia, because iirc we possess almost zero works of this empire.). But I have some doubts. I know the Asian world is out of your field of expertise, but could you tell me if some scholars have calculated the rough amount of loss in Persian, Indian, Chinese ets works (both literary and scientific works of course)? Chinese invented bookburning, so to say, Asian steppe people must have done the same if not worse damage than Vikings, wars were ubiquitous, so i guess the loss should be massive? If it’s less than grecoroman works loss, then why? Thanks in advance.

      1. I suspected it, but i hoped you could direct me towards some articles on this topic written by expert in this field, or somewhere i could find some data. I couldn’t find nothing by googling, apart things i already knew (the loss of zoroastrian texts). I’m pretty sure someone has addressed the topic of the preservation of chinese etc literature in the past. However never mind, sorry to disturb you.

    1. I’ll ask Tom Holland for his response to those criticisms when I interview him for my video channel this weekend. In the meanntime, I’d say any argument based, in part, on errors of fact is not going to be strong. “Early Christians” did condemn slavery – Gregory of Nyssa, the very first ancient thinker to do so, was a Christian and did so as a result of his Christian beliefs. Christianity did not “cast a damnatio memoriae …. over the rigorously open “pensive gaze” of Marcus Aurelius”. His books were widely copied and greatly admired. And the claim that when Justinian “shuttered the Academy in Athens” this brought Greek philosophy to an end is simply garbage. Stoicism and Epicurianism were already on the wane when Christianity became dominant, eclipsed by Neo-Platonism. Christianity was, in effect, just a stage in the developing dominance of Neo-Platonic thought in the ancient world. The writer is indulging in some fantasy, based on mistaken ideas. Given that he takes Pinker, of all people, as a reliable guide on history, this is hardly surprising.

  19. In listening to a YouTube video, architectural historian Calder Loth said “The relearning of ancient Roman culture occured in the Renaissance; it began with the study of Roman literature, philosophy, history and sculpture. The Renaissance also kindled interest in ancient ruins; but Renaissance architects were at a loss on how to design new buildings, using or reusing the classical language; that is until an important discovery. The discovery was an ancient Roman treatise on architecture, by an architect named Vitruvius Pollio, who lived during the time of Caesar Augustus. Vitruvius’s text survived as a medieval copy with no illustrations, it was discovered in 1414 by Vatican archivist, in a monastery in Switzerland. The treatise, titled ‘The Ten Books on Architecture’, covered a number of subjects; materials, construction, hydraulics and acoustics among others. But most importantly it contained an explanation of the fundamentals of classical design.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puuywxqijBU

    Naturally, Isidore of Seville’s Etymologies is ad rem; living long before the conventional Renaissance.

    https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/priscilla-throop/isidore-of-sevilles-etymologies/ebook/product-1pey97yp.html?page=1&pageSize=4

    In The Didascalicon of Hugh of Saint Victor, the “appendages of the arts” are weighed, and have a timely practicality.

    Again, pre 13th century.

    1. I can’t make out what your point might be. How are these rather random comments relevant to anything I’ve said in my article above?

  20. That’s some twirlingly circular reasoning from AC Grayling there: we know that the Christians destroyed pagan culture because we only have 7 of Euripides plays and we know it was the Christians that did that because we know that the Christians destroyed pagan culture…

    What are these people doing on my side of the fence?

    1. Rohmann’s book isn’t terrible, but it seriously overstates its case. For example, he can’t find actual examples of Christians mandating the destruction of works of philosophy and learning, but makes a tenuous and unconvincing argument that this was what the various edicts about destroying books of divination and magic were about. This is highly unconvincing stuff. He has a bit of an agenda, though he mainly keeps it under control. Unfortunately he has been used as a key source by people who have no such restraint, like Catherine Nixey.

      1. ‘the author argues that in addition to heretical, magical, astrological and anti-Christian books, other less obviously subversive categories of literature were also vulnerable to destruction, censorship or suppression through prohibition of the copying of manuscripts’.

        What about the last part, ‘censorship or suppression through prohibition of the copying of manuscripts’? Does he had evidence of that?

        1. It wasn’t so much as prohibition as much as it was Christian writers shockingly (sarcasm) not being as interested in pagan works as Christian works and subsequently not preserving them as much. We must remember that before the Printing Press, preserving writing was limited to a small percentage of the population who had the time, money, and resources to preserve these works. Worse still, when it comes to very technical works in regards to works of philosophy or arithmetic, only a handful of books exist at any given time, with only a tiny amount of people having the proper education and interest to do so. Papyrus did not last long and such it costed a lot to consistently maintain written works in ideal conditions. That means that that the people who could preserve writing not preserving the works they’re not interested in is not unique to Christianity at all. It was the norm. These people all had limited resources in a world vastly different to our own, with many outside political, economic, and social factors playing into this as well.

          The illustrious Spencer McDaniel notes:

          “Now, to give Shenkman credit, there is a very slight grain of truth to this misconception in that some Christian authorities in late antiquity and the Middle Ages did try to destroy a few very specific kinds of ancient texts. As we shall see in a moment, however, there was not in any way a general “systematic campaign to suppress the classics.”

          The first kind of ancient text that some Christians did try to destroy were ancient Greco-Roman occult writings. The Book of the Acts of the Apostles 19:17–20, for instance, famously claims that, while Paul was preaching in the Greek city of Ephesos in Asia Minor, people who had converted to Christianity gathered up any writings they had about magic and publicly burned them. Here is what the actual passage says, as translated in the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV):

          “When this became known to all residents of Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks, everyone was awestruck; and the name of the Lord Jesus was praised. Also many of those who became believers confessed and disclosed their practices. A number of those who practiced magic collected their books and burned them publicly; when the value of these books was calculated, it was found to come to fifty thousand silver coins. So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.”
          The writings that this passage refers to, however, are silly and superstitious works that I don’t think any rationalist should particularly care about. For instance, here is a spell from the Kyranides, an ancient Greek collection of magical texts compiled in around the fourth century AD, as translated by J. C. McKeown in his book A Cabinet of Greek Curiosities:

          “The testicles of a weasel can both ensure and prevent conception. If the right testicle, reduced to ashes and mixed in a paste with myrrh, is inserted into a woman’s vagina on a small ball of wool before intercourse, she will conceive immediately. But if the left testicle is wrapped in mule-skin and attached [we are not told how] to the woman, it prevents conception. The following words have to be written on the mule-skin: ‘ioa, oia, rauio, ou, oicoochx.’ If you are skeptical, try it on a bird that is laying eggs; it will not lay any eggs at all while the testicle is attached to it” (Kyranides 2.7).
          Here’s another example from the Kyranides, also translated by McKeown:

          “If you take some hairs from a donkey’s rump, burn them and grind them up, and then give them to a woman in a drink, she will not stop farting” (Kyranides 2.31).
          I don’t think anyone should greatly mourn the loss of these sorts of texts. They certainly have some historical value, but I don’t think they have any serious literary or scientific value.

          Furthermore, it is hard to emphasize just what miserable failures Christian authorities were at suppressing occult texts. Literally countless reams worth of Greco-Roman spells and occult writings have survived to the present day. You could probably fill a whole library with nothing but ancient Greek and Roman magical texts alone.

          ABOVE: The Preaching of Saint Paul at Ephesus, painted in 1649 by Eustache Le Sueur

          In addition to occult writings, some Christian authorities were also interested in destroying Christian writings that they regarded as heretical. Once again, however, they were phenomenally bad at this, as evidenced by the massive number of surviving Christian apocryphal texts, such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, the Gospel of Judas, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Pistis Sophia, and literally too many others to count. No matter how strongly Christian authorities condemned these writings, people just wouldn’t stop reading them.
          The final kind of ancient text that Christians were interested in suppressing were anti-Christian polemics written by pagan authors such as the Neoplatonic philosopher Iamblichos (lived c. 245 – c. 325 AD) and the Roman emperor Julian the Apostate (lived c. 332 – 363 AD). None of these polemics have survived to the present day complete, but we have a very good impression of the kinds of arguments and accusations they made because, ironically, their arguments have been preserved through works written by Christian apologists in response to them.”
          -Late antique and medieval Christians seem to have had virtually no interest in destroying ancient Greek and Roman scientific, literary, or philosophical texts. On the contrary, in general, ancient and medieval Christians were actually great admirers of classical Greek and Roman literature and philosophy. Virtually all works of ancient Greek and Roman literature that have survived to the present day have survived because they were copied by Christians.

          The reason why so many ancient texts have been lost is not because medieval Christians relentlessly hunted them down to destroy them, but rather because the texts that have been lost were simply not copied enough. In ancient and medieval times, the printing press did not exist and the only way to copy a text was by hand. Naturally, this was a very time-consuming, labor-intensive, and often expensive task.

          In ancient times, people in the Mediterranean world mostly wrote on papyrus, which usually has about the same life expectancy as modern acid paper. Under normal conditions of wear and use, a papyrus manuscript might be expected to last about fifty years. In the Middle Ages, people mostly wrote on parchment, which is much more durable. Texts still had to be copied by hand, though.

          It is often specifically claimed that medieval Christians intentionally burned all the works of the Greek poet Sappho (lived c. 630 – c. 570 BC). As I discuss in this article from December 2019, however, this is nothing but an urban legend that originated among western European Renaissance scholars in the sixteenth century. All of these scholars were writing many centuries after the events they describe supposedly took place and none of them cite any sources for their claims.

          Furthermore, the Renaissance scholars couldn’t even agree on who it was that supposedly burned Sappho’s poems in the first place. The Italian scholar Pietro Alcionio (lived c. 1487 – 1527) thought it was a Byzantine emperor (whose name he apparently couldn’t remember). The later Italian scholar Gerolamo Cardano (lived 1501 – 1576) thought it was the eastern Church Father Gregorios Nazianzenos (lived c. 329 – 390 AD). The French scholar Joseph Justus Scaliger (lived 1540 – 1609) thought it was Pope Gregory VII (lived 1015 – 1085).

          Not only is the evidence to support the claim that Christians intentionally destroyed Sappho’s poems extremely weak, it makes very little sense why Christians would target Sappho of all writers. Judging from the works that have survived, Sappho’s poems are mostly about everyday life, motherhood, old age, partings, and love. Probably the most obscene surviving passage from Sappho comes from fragment 94, which is known to us from a scrap of parchment dated to the sixth century AD. It reads as follows, as translated by M. L. West:

          “You remember how we looked after you;
          or if not, then let me remind
          […]
          all the lovely and beautiful times we had,
          all the garlands of violets
          and of roses and
          and … that you’ve put on in my company,
          all the delicate chains of flowers
          that encircled your tender neck
          […]
          […]
          and the costly unguent with which
          you anointed yourself, and the royal myrrh.
          On soft couches …
          tender …
          you assuaged your longing …”
          So, yeah, not very explicit at all.

          On the other hand, medieval Christians kindly preserved for us all sorts of classical texts that are millions of times more obscene than anything Sappho ever wrote, such as eleven complete comedies of Aristophanes full of jokes about sex and feces, nine volumes of Martial’s Epigrams, and the Priapeia—a collection of eighty gratuitously obscene Latin poems about the fertility god Priapos, who is noted for his gigantic, perpetually erect penis.

          To give you an idea what I’m talking about, here’s Martial’s Epigrams 7.67.1:

          “Pudicat pueros tribas Philaenis
          et tentigine saevior mariti
          undenas dolat in die puellas.”
          Here is a translation of the poem by Harriette Andreadis:

          “That tribade Philaenis sodomizes boys,
          and with more rage than a husband in his stiffened lust,
          she works eleven girls roughly every day.”
          Again, medieval Christians kindly preserved nine whole volumes of these epigrams, most them just as obscene as this one or even more so. It’s hard to imagine that they would tolerate this sort of filth, but, for some reason, find Sappho’s poems objectionable.

          It is far more likely that the real reason why so few of Sappho’s poems have survived is not because there was a systematic campaign to destroy them, but rather because people were just less interested in reading her poems, so they didn’t get copied as much. Sappho wrote in the Aeolic dialect, which late antique audiences found notoriously archaic and difficult to understand. Furthermore, from late antiquity onwards, audiences were generally less interested in lyric poetry and more interested in rhetoric.

          The idea that there was some kind of systematic campaign to eliminate Sappho’s poems is also seriously undermined by the fact that we have vastly more surviving poems by Sappho than we do for the vast majority of other early Greek lyric poets. With Sappho, we have around a dozen nearly complete poems; whereas, for most other early Greek lyric poets, all we have is a name and maybe a couple lines at the most.”

          Indeed, how could the works of vehemently anti-Christian writers such as Julian the Apostate and Celsus after a thousand years of Christian neglect, destruction, or suppression? This is never actually proven with any kind of evidence or actual analysis as it is a dogma repeated for rhetorical effect. These people mainly just say “But it seems like a thing Christianity would do and we have so few texts of paganism anyhow!” While ignoring that the genuine lack of texts on pretty much anything having to Do with antiquity and the Medieval Ages is just due to the inevitable passage of time, given how there are a huge amount of Christian works that aren’t heretical that do not survive as well as pagan ones. It is due to these Christians that the works of Julian and Celsus survive.

          As the above states, the Catholic Church was notoriously terrible at suppressing even the stuff they cared to destroy as its central authority was actually very limited. Which is supported by the fact that the Catholic Church really only went after heretical leaders of heathen sects actively disrupting the daily politics rather than cleansing the lands of their sins. Thus, it is indeed clear then that Christianity is not unique in its “book burning” and “suppression” in the slightest, with adherents of pseudo-historical dogma ignoring crucial factors such as the gradual decentralization of the Western Roman Empire, the collapse of major trade routes, the transition to parchment, and so forth

          Sources: The article I’m writing this comment on

          https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2019/05/25/debunking-the-so-called-dark-ages/

          1. “… the massive number of surviving Christian apocryphal texts, such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, the Gospel of Judas, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Pistis Sophia, and literally too many others to count. No matter how strongly Christian authorities condemned these writings, people just wouldn’t stop reading them.”

            All the texts you list are basically known from a *single* source: the Nag Hammadi Library, a collection of papyrus codices in a sealed jar, buried in the sands of Egypt, most likely in the 4th Century. (A couple of fragments of the Gospel of Thomas were later identified elsewhere, but that’s basically it.)

            “literally too many to count” — Well, no, there were 52 of them. That’s not too many to count.

            “people just wouldn’t stop reading them” — No, they *did* stop reading them. The only reason we have texts is not because they were continually recopied, it’s because they were carefully buried in an environment that preserves papyrus, probably because they’d been condemned by Bishop Athanasius of Alexandria.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Hammadi_library

      2. Rohmann also makes the claim that Papyrus is actually much tougher than people let on in ideal conditions in the opening words. These ideal conditions being an extremely dry environment like Egypt, which is not the case for many other environments. Indeed, he also ignores the sheer flammability of Papyrus and the costs of maintaining Papyrus. I find this claim of durable Papyrus to be dubious

        1. Well thank you for taking the time to write a long response but I was really asking whether Rohmann in that book finds examples of ‘censorship or suppression through prohibition of the copying of manuscripts’. Tim said he can’t find examples of *destruction’, but didn’t say anything about whether he has examples of the prohibition of copying of works of philosophy and learning.

          1. Well, Tim didn’t say anything about the prohibition of the copying of manuscripts because there are no reliable records of Christians intentionally not copying stuff in a serious attempt to suppress learning. It’s just not there. There is just not enough evidence to support this claim, because Christians are the reason why these written works evens survived in the first place. The reason why so many works are lost now, is again, not unique to Christianity and is the norm for Ancient and Medieval history. Christian rulers never really put forth an edict or official law telling monks to stop copying stuff as they had bigger fish to fry. And even if they did, they were extraordinarily bad at it as many heretical works survive to this day. Rohmann’ s book, as Tim says, seriously overstates its case and confuses the lack of texts from the inevitable lack of texts over time from factors such as limited resources, money, time, etc.

          2. I refer to prohibition because that is what it says in the books blurb:

            “Paying special attention to the problem of which genres and book types were likely to be targeted, the author argues that in addition to heretical, magical, astrological and anti-Christian books, other less obviously subversive categories of literature were also vulnerable to destruction, censorship or suppression through prohibition of the copying of manuscripts. These include texts from materialistic philosophical traditions, texts which were to become the basis for modern philosophy and science.”

            Tim says Rohmann can’t find good examples of destruction (of these types of works), but said nothing about what Rohmann says about the prohibition of copying of such works. Hence me asking about that. I don’t want to be told ‘there’s nothing to see here’, I want to know what examples Rohmann says there are.

            I see the book is online in pdf, and a quick wordsearch does not turn up answers to my question, though I did come across a couple of interesting passages:

            “When books containing an unspecified range of liberal arts were destroyed in Antioch at the end of the fourth century, it is reported that book owners responded by burning their personal libraries across the Eastern empire and this allegedly caused the death of pagan philosophy.”

            Another passage refers to “the earlier cited law from 392 which forbade investigations into nature” though I can’t actually see the earlier reference to this in the text.

          3. Tim says Rohmann can’t find good examples of destruction (of these types of works), but said nothing about what Rohmann says about the prohibition of copying of such works.

            He gives no examples of that either.

            I don’t want to be told ‘there’s nothing to see here’, I want to know what examples Rohmann says there are.

            There’s nothing to see here.

          4. Thank you for replying Tim. If that is the case then the blurb of his book is highly misleading and honestly borders on the fraudulent.

            My extremely brief look at his book suggests that he is arguing that there was a lot of collateral damage against the types of works we would consider important while mainly targeting books of magic etc. One has to imagine that the line of demarcation between such works and ‘valuable’ ones could not be drawn perfectly (perhaps even now) and that just as some magical etc works survived, some works of genuine learning were lost in the Christian onslaught. Do you not think? The burning of whole libraries or personal collections would be a good example of this in action, if it happened.

      3. A bit of a late response innit but I am greatly grateful for your insightful comments. I must ask, is there a piece of scholarship that critiques Rohmann’s book in a more detailed and systematic manner? It would be much appreciated.

          1. Should have figured when it comes to academic works such as these. Could you perhaps offer some of your own more-detailed critiques of the book not elsewhere on this blog?

          2. I read his book five years ago and don’t remember the details well enough to do that. I was reading it mainly to check the places where Nixey drew on Rohmann, so I was not taking notes except on those parts. So to do a critique of his book I’d have to re-read the whole thing, just for you. So, no.

          3. It also speaks volume that dogmatic polemicists such as Catherine Nixy have to rely heavily upon works such as these,other than, I dunno…. The overwhelming academic consensus and decades of careful correction and scholarly analysis by heavyweights such as Edward Grant? (As you have detailed extensively here)

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  21. A little off topic but exactly how much was Christianity spread by the sword in Europe? I understand Ireland was converted with little force?

    1. It varied, but most of the conversion was relatively peaceful. Yes, in Ireland it happened fairly organically. Ditto in Iceland, which – apart from a few disputes that got characteristically physical – the new religion was adopted by most via a vote at the Althing. In most of Europe in this period what we call “religion” (a modern word and anachronistic concept) was more a matter of communal practices and customs, rather than individual personal beliefs. So if your chief or king said “we are now adopting these new rituals and customs”, you went along with it. Actual widespread adoption of and understanding of the detailed beliefs and doctrines took much longer – centuries, in fact.

      At the other end of the spectrum we have places where it was imposed by force as part of a political expansion. The most obvious examples of this are Charlemagne’s campaigns to subdue the stubbornly pagan Saxons, the German expansion into the Slavic east and, in the later Middle Ages, the Northern Crusades into the Baltic region. The best book on this is Richard Fletcher, The Conversion of Europe: From Paganism to Christianity 371-1386 AD (Fontana, 1998).

  22. I was just listening to Dan Jones’ Powers and Thrones and he says this regarding the Athens Academy:

    ‘Among the rash of laws passed in the first decade of Justinian’s reign was a decree that pagans were not allowed to teach students…John Malalas spelled out what it meant: In an entry covering the year 529, he wrote “The Emperor issued a decree and sent it to Athens ordering that no-one should teach philosophy nor interpret the laws”.’

    I see someone mentioned this above but you did not respond to it specifically. It seems from this source that Justinian really did shut down the Academy (even if it wasn’t the original one and only taught Neoplatonism), rather than just deprive it of state subsidy. Is there reason to think Malalas is wrong or the picture this paints incomplete?

    1. Dan Jones is a popular history writer who specialises in the Plantagenet kings of England and later English medieval history. Which means tackling an overview of the whole medieval period was, well, pretty ambitious for him. Your quote comes from a section in his book that shows he didn’t have the background knowledge to cover the subject of Christianity’s relationship with pagan learning. He seems to have got his ideas about this from Catherine Nixey’s notoriously bad The Darkening Age, which he was asked to write a pre-publication blurb for, despite the fact he has no background in the relevant period or subject matter. His claim that the closing of the Athens Academy represented the end of Classical learning is pure Nixey and is dead wrong.

      To his credit, when I noted this to him on Twitter, he admitted that he had got this wrong. He also gets the Malas reference wrong. To begin with, the “nor interpret the laws” part is based on an older edition of Malas and new editors reject the manuscript this is based on and have the text as “nor interpret astronomy”. He also misses out the key focus of the prohibitions Malas is referring to, which is all to do with throwing dice. So what has this got to do with philosophy and astronomy? It seems, as Watts details, to be aimed at using dice as tools for mystical divination, as is the astronomy reference – most likely a reference to astrological divination. So this ban on using dice for divination was used by the Athenian authorities to restrict the mystical and very pagan Neoplatonic Academy. Jones is clearly getting his understanding of what this all means and how it may be related to the (later) closing of the Academy from secondary sources, so doesn’t have any of this background knowledge.

      By using a non-professional writer like Jones who is not a specialist in the subject and is in turn using Nixey (another amateur) and other secondary works, you are at several removes from anyone who actually knows and understands the sources. The result is that Jones simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about and gives completely the wrong idea about a complex and difficult topic. I may have to write an article about the complexities here, because crap like Jones’ book is perpetuating simplistic myths.

      1. When Jones is writing on subjects he’s better known for (the Plantagenets, the Crusades, etc.) do you think he’s generally good? I’ve been thinking of buying some of his books.

        1. I’ve only read his book on the Peasants Revolt of 1381, which I really enjoyed. That later medieval stuff is his area. Which is why writing a history of the whole Middle Ages was pretty ambitious for him.

      2. First, thank you for responding. To be clear, I am not ‘using’ Jones in the sense of coopting him to push some agenda, if that’s what you mean, I was just listening to his book and heard him say something that was contrary to my understanding based on the writings of people like you and Tom Holland, of whom I am a great admirer. I am not a ‘new atheist’ (though I was once), in fact I consider myself entirely sympathetic to the views articulated on this website and if you ever put all these great myths together in a book, I intend to buy it. But I do want to make sure I get to the truth, that’s how I became an atheist and then how I stopped being a new atheist (though I leave open the possibility that the change was wrong on both counts). Logically it is possible that Christianity is both the source of Western values of equality and human dignity etc, *and* inhibited the transmission of ancient learning. I am not saying that’s the case, but as a non-expert I don’t start by assuming it cannot be so.

        Anyway, back to the matter, I do not use Twitter/X, could you please link me to where he admits he was wrong, or failing that copy and paste the whole exchange? I did try to find it but Jones’ Twitter juvenile stream was starting to put me off reading the rest of his book so I stopped.

        I will leave aside what John Malalas (or is it Malas?) said about the laws, though astronomy does make more sense. Are you saying that he did not say ‘philosophy’ or that he did not know what Justinian had said, or he was simply using the word ‘philosophy’ to refer to the mystical doctrines being taught by the neoplatonists? You also refer to the ‘later’ closing of the Academy? Are you saying Malalas was referring to a decree that was some time earlier than when the academy actually closed?

        Again, I’m just trying to understand. I am fully aware of the willingness to distort reality here – I have read A.C. Grayling’s History of Philosophy where he talks about the closing of the Academy a fair bit, but never mentions its long period of closure (or should I say non-existence) after Sulla’s siege, even though he actually does mention Sulla’s siege! Unlike in the case of Jones, it is hard to explain that as ignorance.

        1. I understand that you’re not defending the idea that this was some end of ancient philosophy etc. and that you’re trying to clarify the issue re what Malalas said and what it means.

          The exchange with Jones was two years ago and I have no idea how I would go back and find it through the literally thousands of tweets and replies in my feed since then. All I remember is that he was pretty gracious when I noted his errors and accepted that he had got the point wrong.

          Regarding your other questions, they would take a long time to answer and I think I will have to write an article about this because this claim keeps coming up, the evidence it’s based on is ambiguous and the interpretation of it varies widely. Suffice it to say the closure of the Athens Academy was more about its aggressively anti-Christian paganism and was not some cataclysmic “end of rational philosophy”.

          1. Thank you for replying. I was about to say I hope you do write that article, and then I saw the sidebar. Good work! I will certainly be reading that when I get the time.

  23. Your use of the Christian history of philosophy to evaluate Platonism I.e. Neo-platonism lets your article down. There is no such thing as neo-Platonism, this division of philosophy is a relatively recent occurrence, stemming from Christian historians presuming to write about a history that their faith precludes them from understanding. Philosophers were consistent all the way through, Iamblichus is Platonist. What is really at question is what philosophy and logos is, without this understanding, Plato Aristotle, which is to say a vital foundation of western culture is unknown. To appreciate what logos and reason is required one to consider myth, which you regularly use as a pejorative word, as perhaps not irrational but an entirely different kind of literature from both the dogma of the book faiths or the dogma of exegetical writing since the “enlightenment”, which Hegel claims is a secularisation of Protestant attitudes to reading and text.

    Mythos is a different form of literature. Consider this if you like, or not. But please reconsider perpetuating the myths of your received Christian-centric culture. Struve to be a real atheist at he very least. As the Platonist Nietzsche said “I fear we still believe in god because we still have faith in grammar.”

    1. Feel freer to go let every historian of western philosophy on the planet know that Neoplatonism didn’t exist. I’m sure they’ll be fascinated by your insights, Random Anonymous Internet Guy.

  24. Hello,

    I have two questions:

    1) What happened to the Epricureans, Stoics, Platonists, Cynics, and others after the emergence of Christianity? The Antiquity was saturated with various philosophers and schools of thought. These distinct schools of thought seem to disappear during the emergence of Christianity and then suddenly get “resurrected” during the Renaissance.

    2) I understand your point on the preservation of ancient literature/texts by the Christians. However, why don’t we see the development of high-quality intellectual discussions/reflections/texts (such as Plato’s Republic or Euthyphro) from around 5th century AD until the Renaissance? Happy to be wrong here but I noticed that the only intellectually satisfying discussions appear with Thomas Aquinas.

    1. What happened to the Epricureans, Stoics, Platonists, Cynics, and others

      They continued to do what they had been doing for a while before the rise of Christianity – dwindle in importance and prominence. Competing schools of Neoplatonism had long since dominated Hellenic and Roman Era philosophy and Christianity largely absorbed a lot of Neoplatonic thought and then came to dominate because of its association with an exclusionary faith.

      … seem to disappear during the emergence of Christianity and then suddenly get “resurrected” during the Renaissance.

      Yes, because the Humanists had this kind of antiquarian interest in them. But they stayed Christians. It’s not like anyone (except maybe a few eccentrics) really adopted full Epicurianism or Stoicism.

      why don’t we see the development of high-quality intellectual discussions/reflections/texts (such as Plato’s Republic or Euthyphro) from around 5th century AD

      Because the relevant texts were in Greek and literacy in Greek largely died out in the West. But we do see such things in that period. In the Byzantine Empire. And the Syriac East.

      1. I think it’s very important to note that whilst there was a general decline in scholarship and learning in Europe during the Early Middle Ages, with multiple causes, beginning in the eighth century there was a massive renaissance in Greek philosophy in the Islamic Empire and there you find the development of high-quality intellectual discussions/reflections/texts. Just to take one example. Both ibn-Sina and ibn Rushd devoted considerable energy to the analysis of the philosophy of Aristotle. Their work strongly influenced European scholars such as Albertus Magnus and Thomas Aquinas during the so called Scientific Renaissance in the 12th century.

        1. Hi Thony,

          Thanks for your response! I believe that the Islamic golden age may be the root of disagreements people have. I imagine many people are asking how is it that the Islamic and Christian scholars of the Caliphate were able to produce high-quality intellectual products for centuries while the Latin West struggled to even adequately preserve what they had.

          I believe there is probly a need to distinguish between the religious institutions and Christians. Given the proper conditions, Christian philosophers could have likely advanced the scientific thought even further. However, if the religious institutions or theocratic governments impose limitations no advancement is possible.

          I just can’t help but feel pity that Europe lost 5 or 6 centuries of philosophical and intellectual advancement.

          1. I’m trying to work out if calling you naive is less insulting than calling you clueless. Firstly, you have little or no idea how history is done. Instead of looking at the facts and then trying to formulate a hypothesis that fits those facts, you have obviously formulated an unsubstantiated hypothesis and now try to bend the facts to fit it.

            Secondly, you seem to be totally unaware that science/philosophy/ scholarship and learning do not exist in a vacuum. They take place within an existing culture and are influenced by social, political and economic factors. For science and/or philosophy to flourish the culture in which they exist must flourish.

            The eighth-century renaissance of Greek science and philosophy during the Abbasid Caliphate took place in Baghdad, the new, purpose built capital, of the Islamic Empire. A rich, highly cultural city, which ruled over a vast, rich, powerful empire at the height of its existence. It was a major centre of international trade, cultural exchange and the collection and dissemination of knowledge. This was a culture in which science and philosophy could flourish and grow, which it did.

            The decline in science and philosophy in late antiquity, which as Tim has already pointed out, had already started in the third century and thus had nothing to do with Christianity, was part and parcel of the general decline of the Western Roman Empire. As time progressed, following to movement of the Roman capital to Constantinople, in the early fourth century, the Western Empire was a disintegrating, fragmenting culture that was rapidly reverting from a a strongly urban, trading culture to a locally self-sufficient agricultural culture. Not one in which science and philosophy can flourish. There are no religious institutions or theocratic governments imposing limitations, in fact the few scholars who tried to preserve part or all of the Greek intellectual inheritance in the lat phases of this decline, Boethius, Cassiodorus, and Isidore, were all Neoplatonist Christians.

            In your reply to Tim you write, “Neoplatonism did not really resemble the original Platonism and appears to be a Greek response to Christianity.” This is simply put, total ahistorical garbage. Neoplatonism has a very solid core that very much resembles original Platonism and it substantially predated widespread Christianity.

      2. Thank you for your response Tim.

        When you say that these schools dwindle in importance and prominence, I cannot help but notice that this seems to coincide with the rise of Christianity. Of course, correlation is not always causation but I cannot help but wonder whether the rise of Christianity somehow resulted in their decline.

        This is not relevant to the topic per se, but I think Neoplatonism did not really resemble the original Platonism and appears to be a Greek response to Christianity.

        As for the Greek texts, I believe you mentioned that some of them were translated into Latin and some were integrated into Christianity (like Aristotle and geocentricism). However, I don’t think we really see anyone closly working with the texts and building up on them without making reference to the Bible. Do you think that Christianity imposed certain limits/parameters on thought process (using Bible as analytical and intellectual framework) whcih made it difficult or impossible to develop Ancient Greek/Roman philosophical ideas?

        Also, can you please provide me with the works by Byzantine and Syriac scholars ? I am very curious to better understand the intellectual life during 5th to 12th centuries AD.

        Finally, if I understand correctly, you are very critical of Freeman and his books. What could you recommend to read to counter-balance his claims? I would like to develop an objective persecptive on this.

        Thanks.

        1. When you say that these schools dwindle in importance and prominence, I cannot help but notice that this seems to coincide with the rise of Christianity.

          No, we begin to see this decline in the third century. So they actually coincide with an economic decline and breakdown in political and social cohesion from which the Western Empire never fully recovered and which then accelerated rapidly from the fifth century. The correlation is not with the rise of Christianity. If it were, you’d have to explain the lack of a corresponding decline in the Eastern Empire, which was equally Christian but economically stronger and socially and politically more stable.

          Of course, correlation is not always causation but I cannot help but wonder whether the rise of Christianity somehow resulted in their decline.

          See above. Your wondering is based on assumptions that are factually wrong and don’t take all relevant elements into account.

          think Neoplatonism did not really resemble the original Platonism and appears to be a Greek response to Christianity.

          Whether it resembled “the original Platonism” or not is not very relevant. But, actually, it did. Thus the name. And your second claim here is factually wrong.

          I don’t think we really see anyone closly working with the texts and building up on them without making reference to the Bible.

          All philosophical schools studied and integrated other and earlier schools into their overarching system. So this is just a continuation of that ancient tradition.

          Do you think that Christianity imposed certain limits/parameters on thought process (using Bible as analytical and intellectual framework) whcih made it difficult or impossible to develop Ancient Greek/Roman philosophical ideas

          See above. I also think the flexibility that medieval Christianity showed in integrating and absorbing non-Christian systems of thought was quite remarkable.

          Also, can you please provide me with the works by Byzantine and Syriac scholars ?

          All of them? Do some reading on Byzantine philosophy or the work of the Syriac schools. It’s not like this stuff is hard to research. The excellent History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps podcast has a whole series of detailed episodes on Byzantine philosophy. Start there.

          Finally, if I understand correctly, you are very critical of Freeman and his books. What could you recommend to read to counter-balance his claims? I would like to develop an objective persecptive on this.

          Which claims?

    2. “I noticed that the only intellectually satisfying discussions appear with Thomas Aquinas”
      These discussions started in the 11th Century with Petrus Abelardus and Anselmus of Canterbury and lasted well up to the 15th, so that covers about half of the Middle Ages. The conquest of Toledo with its library in 1085 CE helped a lot.
      It’s obvious what happened before in western Europe: continuous barbaric invasions. I think that’s the main cause. See, John Scotus Eriugena produced lots of high quality stuff in the Ninth Century. He was from Ireland, a country that had been saved from war thus far. Unfortunately his name is the only one known to us. That’s because he was the only one to cross the sea to the continent – sure enough in a time it was quiet. After JSE died Ireland “enjoyed” uninvited visits from the VIkings. They did a thorough job, so we know very little or nothing about intellectual dicussions in Ireland in the early Middle Ages.
      As you can imagine it’s nearly impossible to have intellectual discussions when you’re life is in danger and even less so to record them.

  25. Currently reading through Richard Stoneman’s book on the Alexander Romance (endorsed, by the looks of things, by Tom Holland), overall it’s quite interesting, but I did find this very strange claim:

    “It has been said that if Augustine had had his way, classical literature would have been obliterated, and all that subsequent generations would have known of antiquity is what Isidore saw fit to include in his book” (p82)

    In context it seems like he’s endorsing this claim.

    1. I have no idea what he’d be basing this on. Augustine is one of the most prominent and influential proponents of the Gold of the Egyptians argument for preserving and studying pagan knowledge.

      1. Unfortunately he seems to blame the loss of contact with the pagan past entirely on Christianity.

        “As in the west, so in Byzantium a serious loss of contact with the classical past took place as the result of the establishment of Christianity. Before the resurgence of classical learning from the twelfth century onwards, legends and scraps of half-digested knowledge were the main access to the past.” (p217-218)

        Which makes me wonder where he thinks the Muslims got their texts from.

    1. Carrier constantly overstates and exaggerates how advanced and modern the proto-science of the Romans was and then blames Christianity on any decline from his highly imaginary heights. He is not in line with the far more measured assessments of actual professional historians on science on this stuff. In fact, his “Christianity killed ancient science” schtick is held up for ridicule by actual historians of the subject. The first essay in Newton’s Apple and Other Myths about Science (Ronald L. Numbers and Kostas Kampourakis ed.s, Harvard, 2015 is Michael H. Shank on “Myth 1: There was no scientific activity between Greek Antiquity and the Scientific Revolution” (pp. 7-15). Shank opens with a quote from Carrier about how Christianity set back scientific progress by 1000 years as an example of people perpetuating this dumb myth. Carrier is not taken seriously on this stuff by his superiors in the field, largely because his crippling anti-Christian biases make him say stupid things. He’s a polemicist posing as an objective historian.

    2. The claim of decline is refuted by the Notre Dame de Paris from the 12th Century and similar buildings. They are every inch as complicated and advanced as anything the Romans build. It’s ironic that these propagandists of rationality always violate an important scientifice rule: a theory must explain áll the relevant available data. Carrier and co never do.

  26. Tim,

    do you have any recommendations for further reading on the lack of concrete connection between practical engineering and inventions and proto-“scientific” natural philosophy, the history of science between the Hellenistic Age and the fall of the Western Roman Empire, and how (as you have said many times before) proto-science slowed and stagnated, with original insights becoming increasingly less common as everything became more summarized and encyclopaedic?

    1. David C. Lindberg’s The Beginnings of Western Science: The European Scientific Tradition in Philosophical, Religious, and Institutional Context, 600 B.C. to A.D. 1450 (Uni of Chicago: 2008) goes over these things, but I don’t think there’s any work that specifically tackles those particular topics. These are just general accepted elements within the subject.

  27. Thank you for your detailed work. I have always identified as christian myself and I was always fascinated by history in an amateur way, reading light history books and watching youtube historical videos. However, the history I’ve seen when I encountered specific humanities circles (eg atheist history when it comes to christianity and science, feminist history when it comes to female oppresion, etc) is always widely distorted. We’re going through a huge social crisis right now, in my opinion exactly because people regard building narratives as more important than seeking the truth. People like you are essential and I am sure that you will play an important role in the years we’re going through.

    Sincerely thanks, some guy from Greece

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