The Great Myths 6: Copernicus’ Deathbed Publication

The Great Myths 6: Copernicus’ Deathbed Publication

Copernicus first circulated his ideas in 1514, but the Catholic Church did not get around to condemning his heliocentric cosmology until the Inquisition’s injunction against Galileo in 1616. If the Church opposed science and condemned any idea that was contrary to the Bible, why the century long delay? And why did they never persecute Copernicus himself? Many new atheists explain this by claiming he kept his ideas secret and only published his book when he was on his deathbed to escape the wrath of the Church. The reality is quite different.

Deathbed

The idea that Copernicus lived in fear of the Catholic Church and kept his heliocentric theory secret as a result has a long pedigree and its most prominent early proponent was the notorious nineteenth century polemicist, Andrew Dickson White. It was White’s 1896 opus A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom that, with John William Draper’s History of the Conflict between Religion and Science (1874), established the Conflict Thesis or Draper-White Thesis, with its lurid narrative of religion perpetually struggling to prevent the advance of science. Despite the fact that twentieth century historians of science dismantled White and Draper’s claims and rejected the Conflict Thesis, it has permeated the popular perception of the history of science, due in no small part to it being peddled by prominent scientists such as Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking and Neil deGrasse Tyson. As a result, this debunked idea is accepted without question by many new atheists, along with its supporting mythology which makes up White and Draper’s books. This includes White’s version of the story of Copernicus and the deathbed publication of his De revolutionibus orbium coelestium in 1543.

White calls Copernicus “a plain, simple-minded scholar” (though he means “straight forward” rather than “stupid”) who “first fairly uttered to the world the truth, now so commonplace, then so astounding, that the sun and planets do not revolve around the earth, but that the earth and planets revolve around the sun” (Warfare, p. 24). White informs his readers that Copernicus had “been a professor in Rome, but as this truth grew within him, he seemed to feel that at Rome he was no longer safe” (p. 25) He then depicts Copernicus keeping his radical theory secret out of fear and says “for more than thirty years it lay slumbering in the minds of Kopernik and the friends to whom he had privately intrusted [sic] it” (p. 25) Then, according to White, Copernicus decided to seek out a publisher for the book on this theory, “but he dare not send it to Rome, for there are rulers of the older Church ready to seize it”, nor could he send it to Wittenberg, “for there are leaders of Protestantism no less hostile”. So he says Copernicus “instrusted [sic] it to Osiander of Nuremberg” (p. 26).

But, alas, the publisher Osiander betrays Copernicus and, in “a groveling preface” presents it as a hypothesis only “not as a fact“. “Thus”, White laments,”was the greatest and most ennobling, perhaps, of scientific truths …. forced, in coming before the world, to sneak and crawl.” (pp. 26-7). Then comes the climax of this story, with Copernicus on his deathbed finally, on May 24th 1543, taking hold of the printed edition of his masterwork. “A few hours later, he was beyond the reach of those mistaken, conscientious men, whose consciences would have blotted his reputation, and perhaps have destroyed his life.” (p. 27) In White’s dramatic retelling, Copernicus had only managed to escape the censorship of the Church and the rack and the stake of the Inquisition through secrecy, subterfuge and delaying publication until his death.

Not surprisingly this vignette of secrecy and intrigue has been repeated many times since 1896 and has entered the folklore that makes up many people’s understanding of the history of science. In one of a number of historically confused comments on an earlier post on this blog, former fundamentalist Christian turned atheist author, Edward T. Babinski, repeated the deathbed publication story:

“Copernicus refused to published his manuscript on his heliocentric theory early on, but waited and waited, and would have waited till after he had died, but some brave Protestant urged him to get it published, which it was, just prior to Copernicus’s death. If the Church was so neutral and even pro-science, then why wait?”

In a 2014 blog post full of typical historical howlers, new atheist grumpy uncle PZ Myers sneered at a mention of Copernicus as a “Catholic astronomer”, snarling “[Copernicus] delayed publication out of fear; only saw his ideas in print on his deathbed [and his] book was prohibited by the Catholic Church in 1616”. And just a few weeks ago in an error-filled article rehearsing the hoary myth of Giordano Bruno as a martyr for reason, the atheist blogger Rick Snedeker also repeated the deathbed publication story:

“The great pioneering Polish astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus (1473-1543), who died five years before Bruno was born, had developed radical ideas about the nature of the cosmos (which ultimately proved largely correct). He released them publicly only on the eve of his death (he had long hesitated publishing his theory because he feared Church blowback, as it refuted scripture).” (Gadzooks: The Faith in Facts Blog, “Martyrs of Reason: Giordano Bruno“)

As with many of the myths that make up new atheist historiography, this one conforms to the Draper-White “conflict” narrative, has a noble rationalist hero and Christian villains, a moral and an ultimately happy ending. And, like them, it is a pseudo historical fairy tale.

Copernicus and his World

Copernicus was, unsurprisingly, a man of his time and, equally unsurprisingly, a devout Catholic all his life. Born into a relatively well off mercantile family on 19 February 1473, Copernicus was the youngest of four children. His father, also called Nicholas, was a copper merchant from Kraków who moved to Copernicus’ birth city of Thorn around 1458. His mother, Barbara Watzenrode, was the daughter of a wealthy merchant and city councillor in Thorn and her brother, Coperncius’ uncle Lucas Watzenrode the Younger, was to be a major influence on his young nephew’s career. In 1483 Copernicus’ father died and his uncle took over the upbringing and education of his nephews and nieces and probably sent the young Nicholas to St John’s School in Thorn, given that he had previously been a master there.

In 1489 Watzenrode was elected Prince-Bishop of Warmia and two years later his nephews Nicholas and Andrew both commenced study at their uncle’s alma mater, the University of Kraków. This university was already renowned as a centre of modern astronomical study and later traditions indicate that Copernicus was taken under the wing of Albert Brudzewski; professor of Aristotelian philosophy but also a respected mathematician and astronomer. In 1495 Copernicus left Kraków without completing his Arts degree to take up a post as canon under his uncle, the Bishop of Warmia. This was delayed, possibly by an appeal to Rome against the appointment, so Watzenrode sent both of his nephews to Italy to study canon law instead.

Copernicus studied at the University of Bologna from 1496 to early 1501, but he does not seem to have had great enthusiasm for canon law, as he also attended lectures on the humanities and astronomy. Renaissance Italy was the epicentre of humanist enthusiasm for Greek and Roman literature and Copernicus seems to have thrived in the atmosphere of Bologna, where he also became the assistant to and disciple of the astronomer, Domenico Maria Novara da Ferrara. He visited Rome for the Jubilee year of 1500, where he stayed for some months and seems to have delivered private lectures on astronomical calculation which were well-received. He returned to Warmia in 1501, but went back to Italy later that year, again at his uncle’s instigation, to study medicine at Padua and complete his doctorate in canon law, returning to his native Prussia for good in the autumn of 1503.

And for many proteges of powerful bishops, that would probably have been the extent of their scholarly career. In a period in which careers were shaped by more powerful patrons and relatives, many would have taken their new education and applied it as administrators and functionaries, leaving any further scholarly work as a pastime. Of course, in a way, that is what Copernicus did. For the next 30 years he worked as a canon of the bishopric of Warmia, serving in the retinue of his uncle and his successors, acting as their physician, undertaking administrative duties and occasional diplomatic missions, managing economic matters, making maps and doing everything from settling land disputes to organising provisions in preparation for a siege by an invading army of the Teutonic Knights. He took minor orders and may or may not have ever been fully ordained as a priest. He had no children, though he did have a relationship with his housekeeper Anna Schilling, causing a minor scandal that resulted in her banishment from his new home town of Frombork in 1539. He was known to continue his interest in astronomy and a 1530s satirical play by Wilhelm Gnapheus depicts him as an aloof astrologer who was alleged to have a neglected unpublished work tucked away in a chest.

But Copernicus stayed engaged with the astronomical studies of the time and was well connected to the humanism he had encountered in his time in Italy. His friends, supporters and correspondents were all humanists who were great admirers of Erasmus of Rotterdam: men like Tiedemann Giese, Alexander Scultetus, Feliks Reich and Achacy Trenck, who like Copernicus were clergy and functionaries in Prussia and the Kingdom of Poland. Copernicus certainly saw himself as a humanist man of letters, and translated and published a collection of Greek poems by the seventh century Byzantine poet Theophylact Simocatta. But he also saw himself primarily as a mathematician in a period where astronomy was a branch of mathematics. He was of a generation that was building on the new mathematical astronomy done by Georg von Peuerbach and his disciple Johannes Müller von Königsberg, better known as Regiomontanus. While both had done much to refine Ptolemaic astronomy, by the time Copernicus left Italy there was growing dissatisfaction among pure mathematical astronomers like Copernicus with the accuracy of the model that had dominated western astronomy since the second century AD.

This is because what we call “the Ptolemaic model” was actually a synthesis between the physics of Aristotle and the mathematical astronomy detailed in Ptolemy’s Syntaxis Mathematica, known in the Middle Ages as the Almagest. In effect, Ptolemy’s model was an attempt to reconcile accepted Aristotelian physics with what can be observed in the sky. The result was something of a mathematical kludge: with awkward combinations of epicycles, equants and deferents all designed to maintain the geocentric system of spheres and circular orbits required by Aristotle’s physics, while still allowing astronomers to make observations that were reasonably accurate. By the early fifteenth century, mathematical heirs to Peuerbach and Regiomontanus were becoming more acutely aware of just how much the Ptolemaic system was ramshackle from both a physical and a mathematical point of view. As more accurate observations were made, some of them – such as the lunar occultation of the star Aldebaraan observed by Copernicus and his astronomical mentor Domenico Maria Novara in March 1497 – led to doubts about the accuracy and therefore the ongoing utility of Ptolemy’s model.

Copernicus needs to be understood in this context: he saw his heliocentric model as a resolution, bringing the two ways of seeing the cosmos together; an answer to these theoretical tensions which preserved the purity of the (assumed) circular orbits of the planets, by getting rid of the (to him) most inelegant part of Ptolemy’s system – the equant – while also trying to make his system more mathematically precise. [For those who need a primer on the Ptolemaic System and how Copernicus’ alternative reworked it, Wikipedia has a fairly good summary]. So, contrary to the conception of Copernicus as the great observational astronomer who completely tossed out the medieval artificiality of the Ptolemaic model and replaced it with solid science, Copernicus was actually, in large part, trying to make the mathematics fit closer to the semi-mystical Greek ideal of concentric celestial spheres and circular orbits.

 Miechów's 1514 catalogue
The earliest mention of Copernicus’ theory – Matthew of Miechów’s 1514 catalogue

The Reception of the Theory: Pre-1543

Which brings us back to the story of Copernicus’ fear of the Church, the secrecy around his theory and the deathbed publication of De revolutionibus. Copernicus was working within a new tradition of mathematical analysis of and commentary on the Ptolemaic model where there had been, as noted, an increasing dissatisfaction with the model’s accuracy and usefulness. Given that it had been the accepted model for well over one thousand years and was based on accepted physical principles that dated to more than 300 years before that, the intellectual inertia against more than minor adjustments to it was substantial, but there was an increasing need for astronomy to be accurate: the growing awareness that the Julian Calendar was in urgent need of reform being one reason for this.

Even the physics that underpinned the model was already open to question. Back in the mid fourteenth century Nicolas Oresme had analysed the evidence for and against the idea of a daily rotation of the earth in his Livre du ciel et du monde and concluded that it was actually entirely possible, though he ultimately retained the Aristotelian belief that it remained stationary, largely because he could not make a rotating earth fit with a larger cosmographical model that made sense. And the fact that everyone understood that the Ptolemaic model was essentially a mathematical calculating device rather than a map of what was physically happening in the heavens meant that, at least in theory, they understood that it could be replaced by something better. No less a figure than Thomas Aquinas made this point several times. For example:

“The suppositions that these astronomers have invented need not necessarily be true; for perhaps the phenomena of the stars are explicable on some other plan not yet discovered by men” (De coelo, II.17)

Or again:

“The theory of eccentrics and epicycles is considered as established because thereby the sensible appearances of the heavenly movements can be explained; not, however, as if this proof were sufficient, forasmuch as some other theory might explain them.” (Summa theologica, I, q.32, a.1, ad. 2)

Speculation about the motion of the earth continued, with Nicholas of Cusa including the idea in his conception of an infinite and unbounded universe in his De docta ignorantis (1440). Around 1518 Celio Calcagnini of Ferrara wrote an essay entitled Quod Coelum stet, Terra autem moveatur (That the Heaven Stands Still whereas the Earth Moves) which was published in Basel in 1544. None of these writers were condemned by any Christian church.

Copernicus was not even the first person to publish an alternative to the Ptolemaic model. In 1538, five years before the publication of De revolutionibus, Giralamo Fracastoro published Homocentrica, which detailed a complex system that did away with Ptolemy’s epicycles and eccentrics and replaced them with a model based on concentric spheres. Like Copernicus, Fracastoro  dedicated his book to Pope Paul III. And like Copernicus, he was inspired by the awkwardness and imprecision of the Ptolemaic model to look back to pre-Ptolemaic alternatives for inspiration – in Fracastoro’s case he looked to the system attributed to Plato’s pupil Eudoxos. But unlike Copernicus’ model, that of Fracastoro was vastly more complicated than the one it sought to replace and even more removed from likely physical actuality. Fracastoro’s system required no less than 77 concentric spheres to function but it did not have the accompanying computational methods that made Ptolemy’s system so useful. He did not have the patience or the mathematical skill that allowed Copernicus to not only replace the more awkward elements of Ptolemy, but match his computational utility.

So there was no dogmatic imperative or doctrinal barrier against someone coming up with a better theory and others were already toying with other models. On the whole, however, the hold that Aristotelian physics had on natural philosophy was difficult to escape due to a lack of comprehensive viable alternatives that accounted for as much as Aristotle’s systems did. The fact that several interpretations of Biblical verses conformed with Aristotle in the Scholastic synthesis made this inertia against overturning the Ptolemaic model even greater.

But Copernicus, driven by his increasing dissatisfaction with the mathematical accuracy of Ptolemy’s system, decided to overturn it anyway. He is likely to have begun this project as early as the time of his studies in Italy or soon after his return to Prussia in 1503 and he seems to have had completed his manuscript, minus some later adjustments and additions, by around 1532. So was this, as White claimed in his Warfare of Science with Theology, a period in which Copernicus fled from Rome because “he was no longer safe” and then kept his ideas hidden, shared only with a few trusted friends, until he thwarted the Catholic Church by keeping his book’s publication until he was about to die? In a word: no.

To begin with Copernicus definitely did not keep his ideas secret at all. He not only discussed them widely with his continent-wide circle of friends and compatriots, but around 1512 he also wrote an eight chapter summary of his theory – the so-called Commentariolus – which then circulated in unpublished form among interested astronomers and mathematicians. He seems to have sent a copy to the Cracow cartographer and historian Bernard Wapowski and it is this copy that probably found its way into the library of Matthew of Miechów, where its appearance in that library’s catalogue in 1514 is the first recorded mention of Copernicus’ theory. Copernicus’ friend and supporter, Bishop Tiedemann Giese of Culm, was almost certainly one of those who circulated the Commentariolus and he seems to have either sent a copy or at least written about the theory to the great Humanist scholar, Erasmus of Rotterdam – though another mathematician in Cracow, Johannes Broscius, later described Erasmus’ reception of the thesis as “temperate”.

Audiences in Rome, on the other hand, were rather more enthusiastic. In 1533 the German scholar and theologian Johann Albrecht Widmanstadt (or Widmannstetter) was serving as a secretary to Pope Clement VII and was invited by the pope to give a lecture on Copernicus’ theory. Widmanstadt gave at least one lecture (or it may have been a series) in the Vatican gardens for the pope and leading members of the Curia and Papal court, including Cardinal Franciotto Orsini, Cardinal Giovanni Salviati, the Bishop of Viterbo Giampietro Grassi and the papal physician Matteo Corte. The pope was fascinated by the theory and rewarded Widmanstadt, who was a famous orientalist and Grecophile, with a precious manuscript of Alexander of Aphrodisias’s De sensu et sensibili, with Widmanstadt proudly inscribing the circumstances in which he received this gift in its front pages.

Widmanstadt continued as papal secretary to Clement’s successor, Pope Paul III, and then to Cardinal Nikolaus von Schönberg after 1535. It was probably from Widmanstadt that von Schönberg learned of Copernicus’ theory, leading him to write to Copernicus to encourage him to publish his book:

“Some years ago word reached me concerning your proficiency, of which everybody constantly spoke. At that time I began to have a very high regard for you, and also to congratulate our contemporaries among whom you enjoyed such great prestige. For I had learned that you had not merely mastered the discoveries of the ancient astronomers uncommonly well but had also formulated a new cosmology. In it you maintain that the earth moves; that the sun occupies the lowest, and thus the central, place in the universe; that the eighth heaven remain perpetually motionless and fixed; and that, together with the elements included in its sphere, the moon, situated between the heavens of Mars and Venus, revolves around the sun in the period of a year. I have also learned that you have written an exposition of this whole system of astronomy, and have computed the planetary motions and set them down in tables, to the greatest admiration of all.

Therefore with the utmost earnestness I entreat you, most learned sir, unless I inconvenience you, to communicate this discovery of yours to scholars, and at the earliest possible moment to send me your writings on the sphere of the universe together with the tables and whatever else you have that is relevant to this subject. Moreover, I have instructed Theodoric of Reden to have everything copied in your quarters at my expense and dispatched to me. If you gratify my desire in this matter, you will see that you are dealing with a man who is zealous for your reputation and eager to do justice to so fine a talent. Farewell.” (Rome, November 1, 1536)

So it could not be more clear that the idea that Copernicus was fearful of religious persecution is pure fantasy. There is no evidence to support White’s claim that he somehow fled Rome in 1503 and he quite obviously did not keep his theory in any way “secret” – it was known to a network of scholars across Europe and, through them and his summary in the Commentariolus, to a wider group of interested intellectuals. The idea that it was fear of churchmen that inspired this mythical “secrecy” is also patent nonsense, given that both Catholic and Protestant scholars were aware of his theory well before 1543 and those who expressed great interest and admiration included several bishops, three cardinals and the Pope himself.

Copernicus’ Hesitation

Yet for several years after the encouragement of various supporters and the enthusiastic support of Cardinal von Schönberg, Copernicus still hesitated. If it was not fear of religious persecution that made him reluctant to publish, what was the actual reason? Writing later, in his prefatory dedication of De revolutionibus to Pope Paul III, Copernicus himself gives us an insight into the real source of his hesitation:

“Those who know that the consensus of many centuries has sanctioned the conception that the earth remains at rest in the middle of the heaven as its center would, I reflected, regard it as an insane pronouncement if I made the opposite assertion that the earth moves. Therefore I debated with myself for a long time whether to publish the volume which I wrote to prove the earth’s motion or rather to follow the example of the Pythagoreans and certain others, who used to transmit philosophy’s secrets only to kinsmen and friends, not in writing but by word of mouth …”

This is, in effect, more or less what he did from 1503 to 1543, though his Commentariolus meant the transmission was not entirely by word of mouth. This kind of private circulation of ideas was common in the period, because it kept the work in question within the confines of technical specialists. Publishing them, on the other hand, laid them open to analysis and criticism by all and, in an age of polymaths and overlapping intellectual disciplines, Copernicus knew this meant a wider, potentially more critical audience who did not share the his intellectual circle’s attitudes toward purist mathematical astronomy. So Copernicus’ dedication continues:

“[The ancient Pythagoreans] wanted the very beautiful thoughts attained by great men of deep devotion not to be ridiculed by those who are reluctant to exert themselves vigorously in any literary pursuit unless it is lucrative; or if they are stimulated to the non acquisitive study of philosophy by the exhortation and example of others, yet because of their dullness of mind they play the same part among philosophers as drones among bees. When I weighed these considerations, the scorn which I had reason to fear on account of the novelty and unconventionality of my opinion almost induced me to abandon completely the work which I had undertaken.”

Of course, Copernicus’ rhetoric here is working to blunt any criticisms his book would attract by casting the potential critics as “drones among bees”, but he is making it clear that it is the critiques by these other scholars that made him hesitate, not the purely theological objections of churchmen or any persecution by the Church hierarchy. He was obviously confident enough in his theory for it to be discussed by other fellow mathematici, but in a time when any scholastic, astrologer, mystic or even semi-educated crackpot saw themselves capable of judging astronomical works, he was not convinced wider dissemination of his theory was in his best interest. As he put is bluntly in his dedication to the Pope, “astronomy is written for astronomers”.

There is a further but related likely reason for his hesitation which he does not articulate but which needs to be remembered. While Copernicus and his followers and supporters certainly seem to have been convinced by his theory, they also knew that there were sound scientific objections to it, particularly on the grounds of physics.  Copernicus knew what these objections were going to be and tried to head them off in his work, with fairly limited success. These problems were to become front and centre in the debate about the competing cosmological models that really began in the later sixteenth century and raged until they were finally settled by a combination of Kepler’s Laws and Newton’s new physics a century later. Copernicus and his followers did not acknowledge this at the time, but they would have known that at least some of the scientific objections they knew the theory would attract would be entirely valid and, at that stage, were actually impossible to refute fully.

But despite all these reasons for hesitation, Copernicus was convinced to change his mind and publish after all largely thanks to the efforts of Georg Joachim Rheticus. Rheticus was a Protestant who had been appointed as Professor of Mathematics at the new university of Wittenberg in 1536 by the Lutheran reformer, theologian and educator Philipp Melanchthon. Two years later he was given leave to go study with leading astronomers to expand his knowledge and while on this tour of Europe Rheticus heard of Copernicus and sought him out in Fromborg. Rheticus spent two years with Copernicus and became his most enthusiastic disciple, encouraging the ageing master to finally publish the full exposition of his model. In 1540 Rheticus published his Narratio Prima or “First Report” – an anonymous abstract of Copernicus’ De revolutionibus that laid out the heliocentric model in more detail than the Commentariolus. The Narratio was published first in Danzig and then in a second edition in Basel in 1541, with both editions attracting great interest. Copernicus was encouraged by the positive reception that the Narratio received and so finally decided to publish his full work, complete with its explanation of his initial reluctance.

By this stage Rheticus had returned to Wittenberg, so Coperniucus – now too old to travel – gave the manuscript of De revolutionibus to his friend Bishop Giese to deliver to Rheticus to oversee publication. Rheticus took the manuscript to the great German publishing centre of Nürnberg, but soon afterwards was asked by Melanchthon to take up a professorship of mathematics in Leipzig, so he entrusted the publication project to a fellow Protestant scholar, Andreas Osiander, though he stayed in contact with the project via an ongoing correspondence with both Copernicus and Osiander. These letters give a further insight into Copernicus’ lingering concerns about how his work would be received.

It seems the three continued to discuss the best way to present Copernicus’ work and that it was the novelty of the theory and the continuing influence of Aristotle on the cosmology of the day that concerned Copernicus. He seems to have feared, probably with good reason, that many non-specialists would dismiss his book without bothering to (or being capable of) working their way through its complex mathematics. As already noted, Aristotle had been the dominant influence on the view of the cosmos thanks to the way Ptolemy mathematically synthesised his physics and cosmology with what can be observed in the sky. Then both this and Aristotle’s philosophy generally had been further synthesised with Christian theology and Scriptural interpretation to form the Scholastic system that had dominated European thinking since the thirteenth century. By Copernicus’ time the Humanist movement had been pushing against the “Peripatetics” – more conservative thinkers who clung to the heavily Aristotelian-Christian system – but in physics and cosmology the “Peripatetics” definitely held sway; in no small part because the synthesis of Aristotle and Christian theology had proved so comprehensive and seemed so solidly-based.  In letters to both Copernicus and Rheticus, Osiander suggested a strategy to get around the objections of the Aristotelians:

“The Peripatetics and Theologians will easily be placated if they hear that there can be different hypotheses for the same apparent motion and that these (of Copernicus) are not presented because they are certain but rather because they permit the most convenient way to calculate the apparent and compounded motions; and, it is possible that someone else may contrive other hypotheses so that to explain the same apparent motion one person may present suitable mental images (imagines), another even more suitable; and, each one is free – even better: each should be thanked – if he contrives even more convenient hypotheses.” (Wittenberg, April 20, 1541)

This was effectively the approach taken by Osiander in the infamous “Preface” that he attached to the final published version of De revolutionibus, suggesting that it could be read merely as a hypothesis and calculating device rather than physical theory (more on this below). But the point to note here is the term “peripatetics and theologians”, which is used twice in this letter to refer to the potential critics of the book. Clearly the issue was not simply “theologians” per se, but those theologians and philosophers who were especially devoted to Aristotle. It was not reaction to any contradiction of the Bible that concerned Copernicus and his editors, but rather the expected reaction to the contradiction of the synthesis between Aristotelian natural philosophy and theology that was the issue.

Early Reactions to ‘De revolutionibus’

If the genuine concern of Copernicus had been purely theologically-based rejection and furious Church condemnation, as the myth supposes, then surely this is precisely what we would have seen once the book was finally released in 1543. Certainly, given that Copernicus was dead by the time his book came to be read, he himself would only have suffered post mortem repudiation by a furiously anti-science Church, but surely if it was this expected religious response that stayed his hand for so many decades the reaction of the Church would have been all the more ferocious because he had escaped the Inquisition by his death. Except the reaction to the publication of De revolutionibus was … not much. Like the Narratio, it was well received by the specialists who had an interest in astronomy and cosmology, but there was no firestorm of condemnation or calls for the book to be declared heretical.

It is sometimes claimed that this was because the “Preface” inserted by Osiander mentioned above managed to convince everyone that the book was merely setting out a calculating method and was not meant to be taken literally, thus completely deflecting the religious condemnation it would otherwise have received. This argument makes little sense, however. Osiander’s preface certainly did set out to blunt ill-informed criticism of the work, as a later section of the letter to Rheticus and Copernicus quoted above makes clear. Osiander goes on to argue that highlighting the fact that all mathematical cosmological models were essentially just calculating devices would give room for “the Peripatetics” to consider Copernicus’ thesis carefully rather than rejecting it out of hand:

“In this manner, induced to leave behind their severe critique in order to pass over to the pleasures of investigation, first they will become more reasonable; then, after they have sought in vain, they will come over to the author’s opinion.”

So Osiander’s noting the fact that Coperncius’ model, like all such models, was first and foremost a mathematical device which agreed with the celestial phenomena was simply in keeping with the understanding of such models at the time. More importantly, however, it was not a ruse to convince everyone that the book should only be read this way, because anyone who read past the “Preface” could see fairly quickly that Copernicus clearly was arguing for the physical reality of his system. The Prefatory note was simply a way to overcome uninformed criticism and get potential a priori critics to consider the mathematical core of the book seriously.

It did not become completely clear that the “Preface” was an editorial addition and not by Copernicus himself until the second half of the seventeenth century, but analysis of the early reactions to the book make it clear that readers did indeed understand the model was meant to be taken as a literal, physical one and not just a calculation device and at least one, Giovanni Maria Tolosani (see below) worked out that the “Preface” was not written by Copernicus. Despite this, the religious reaction was minimal. It is often noted that no less a religious authority than Martin Luther rejected Copernicus on purely religious grounds, but the evidence for this is thin and actually not entirely certain. Luther’s comment is found in the collection of his “table talk”  – a compilation of anecdotes and reported comments and sayings taken from notes made by students between 1531 and 1544 and then published as the Tischreden in 1566. Luther is reported to have referred dismissively to Copernicus:

“There was mention of a certain astrologer who wanted to prove that the earth moves and not the sky, the sun, and the moon. This would be as if somebody were riding on a cart or in a ship and imagined that he was standing still while the earth and the trees were moving. [Luther remarked] ‘So it goes now. Whoever wants to be clever must agree with nothing that others esteem. He must do something of his own. This is what that fellow does who wishes to turn the whole of astronomy upside down. Even in these things that are thrown into disorder I believe the Holy Scriptures, for Joshua commanded the sun to stand still and not the earth’ [Joshua 10:12].”

This seems at first glance to be an open an shut case of a purely religiously-based rejection of Copernicanism by no less an authority than the father of Protestantism. But closer inspection shows that it is not quite this simple. The anecdote is recorded by Anthony Lauterbach and dated to 1539. Of course, this puts it four years before De revolutionibus was published and even two years before the first edition of the Narratio. Since we have good reason to believe that the Commentariolus was not in circulation in Wittenberg at this time, this comment is – at best – based on hearsay about Copernicus’ theory, not any considered objection to the (as yet unpublished) theory. It is also, by Luther’s usual standards, a very mild and off-handed dismissal, given that when the great reformer really wanted to make his disapproval known – about, for example, dirty revolting peasants or “lying Jews” – he was more than capable of issuing hundreds of pages of thundering condemnation. Then there is the problem that the “astrologer” in question is not named. So Luther could be referring to some second hand report about Copernicus, but given that the theory this person is supposed to have proposed is not heliocentrism but a revolving earth, it could also be a reference to Nicole Oresme, Jean Buridan, Nicholas of Cusa or any other pre-Copernican who had discussed the movement of the earth.

Rather more clear and certainly more significant is the reaction of Phillip Melanchthon, given that he was (unlike Luther) an actual philosopher literate in astronomy and the founder of the Lutheran education system. He was the patron of both Rheticus and Osiander but it seems he took a dim view of Copernicus’ theory. In a textbook he wrote published in 1549 he wrote:

“But some dare say, either because of the love of novelties or in order to appear ingenious, that the earth moves, and contend that neither the eight sphere nor the sun moves while they assign other movement to the celestial spheres and place the earth among the stars. The joke is not new. There is a book by Archimedes called ‘De Numeratione Arenae’, in which he reports that Aristarchus of Samos defended this paradox, that the sun remains fixed and the earth turns around the sun. And although clever workers investigate many questions to give expression to their ingenuity, the young should know that it is not good to defend such absurd opinions publicly, nor is it honest or a good example.” (Initia Doctrinae Physicae)

This seems a fairly clear rejection of Copernicus, though it does not make clear whether Melanchthon considered his theory “absurd” for scientific reasons, religious ones or both. It also needs to be considered that while this book was published in 1549, it had been written in 1545 soon after he had read De revolutionibus. Subsequent editions of Melanchthon’s book toned down the ridicule in this passage while retaining the rejection of the model as a physical actuality. Despite this, Melanchthon still encouraged the use of Copernicus’ model as a calculating device at Wittenberg University and other Lutheran institutions – an instrumentalist approach that has been dubbed “the Wittenberg interpretation” as a result.

For an objection to Copernicanism that has any clear substantial religious component we have to turn to Giovanni Maria Tolosani (c. 1470 – 1549), who was a Dominican friar from Florence, an adviser to the papacy and a skilled astronomer. Tolosani wrote a large work called On the Truth of Sacred Scripture which he completed around 1544. He then addended to it a series of 12 supplements on various topics, including one on Copernicus. Tolosani was very much an Aristotelian in the tradition of Thomas Aquinas and so exactly the kind of “Peripatetic” Copernicus suspected would reject his theory. And reject it he did – for exactly the combination of scientific and theological reasons we would expect from a Thomist:

“For by a foolish effort [Copernicus] tried to revive the weak Pythagorean opinion, long ago deservedly destroyed, since it is expressly contrary to human reason and also opposes holy writ. From this situation, there could easily arise disagreements between Catholic expositors of holy scripture and those who might wish to adhere obstinately to this false opinion.”

The dual reasons for rejection given here – that the theory is “contrary to reason and [it] also opposes holy writ” – were to form the basis for the rejection of Galileo 90 years later and, as an astronomer, Tolosani’s objections were based on both his upholding of traditional interpretations of relevant Biblical texts and his knowledge of Aristotelian physics. He argues that astronomy, as a mathematical discipline, has to be subordinate to the higher and “nobler” disciplines of physics and theology – “the lower science receives principles approved by the superior” – and he rejects Copernicus because his theory is contradicted on key points by both physics and theology and because he finds him “very deficient in the sciences of physics and logic”.

So this is no mere preacher rejecting Copernicus purely because he contradicts the Bible: its the synthesis of natural philosophy and theology and the weight of the tradition supporting that synthesis that Tolosani feels cannot be overturned by a mere mathematicus, practising a “lower” discipline and not dealing sufficiently with the physical problems with his theory. Interestingly, Tolosani also notes that “Master of the Sacred and Apostolic Palace [scholastic scholar Bartelomeo Spina] had planned to condemn this book, but, being prevented first by illness and then by death, he could not fulfil this intention”. So here is the reaction by “the Peripatetics” that Copernicus expected. But what is notable about it is how muted it is. Obviously we cannot know how much of an impact a refutation by Spina may have had, but Tolosani’s work had very little. His pamphlet was never published and vanished into the archives of his order in manuscript form only. There is some evidence that it was read by some of his fellow Florentine Dominicans and may have influenced Tommaso Caccini, the Dominican preacher whose sermon attacking Galileo on December 20, 1614 began the whole Galileo Affair. Apart from this unpublished pamphlet, however, there is little sign of any criticism of De revolutionibus that had any substantial religious basis.

“The Book Nobody Read”

For most of the rest of the period from 1543 to around 1600 the reaction to De revolutionibus was twofold. On one hand, the overwhelming majority of astronomers did not accept Copernicus’ model as a physical system, largely because of the scientific objections to it based on Aristotle’s physics. On the other hand, its mathematical sophistication was appreciated and while it was no more precise than Ptolemy’s model, it was easier to use for some calculations. In 1551 Erasmus Reinhold used Copernicus’ calculations as the basis for his Prutenic Tables – a new set of ephemerides intended to replace the earlier Alphonsine Tables that astronomers, astrologers and navigators had been using for the previous 300 years. These planetary tables were highly practical instruments that laid out the weekly, daily and hourly positions of the various heavenly bodies, but the inaccuracy of the old Alphonsine Tables had long been recognised and it was hoped that Reinhold’s new tables would be better. As it turned out, this was not really the case: some aspects the new tables were better than their predecessors, others about the same and in some respects they were worse. Despite this, the Prutenic Tables came to be widely adopted and eventually formed the basis of the calendar reform of Pope Gregory XIII in 1582, with the establishment of the Gregorian Calendar still used to this day.

The use of the Prutenic Tables probably raised the profile of Copernicus’ theory, but it did not greatly increase the acceptance of his model as anything other than a mathematical calculating device. Reinhold himself rejected the Copernican theory on physical grounds and translated Copernicus’ calculations back into a geocentric model and the fact that the new Tables were not significantly more accurate probably also stunted the wholesale acceptance of the theory. On the whole , the scientific reaction to De revolutionibus was that it was great mathematics, but bad physics. Writing in 1578, Pierre de la Ramée of the Collège Royal in Paris appreciated the Prutenic Tables but was not convinced about Copernicus’ “vain and cumbersome” theory:

“If only Copernicus had addressed the edification of astronomy without hypotheses! In fact, it would have been much easier for him to trace an astronomy in accordance with the truth of heavenly bodies than [to make] such a gigantic effort to move the Earth, forcing us to look at and speculate on the immovable stars from a moving Earth.” (Scholae mathematicae, II.47)

In 1559 Thomas Hill published The School of Skill in which he lays out the accepted scientific objections to Copernicus’ model in detail and then makes reference to objections based on Scripture rather briefly, as something of an afterthought. For scholars before around 1600 the issues with Copernicanism were primarily scientific, not religious. Harvard historian of science Owen Gingerich undertook an 30 year long analysis of the surviving copies of the first two editions of De revolutionibus – 601 copies in all – and discovered something interesting. In The Book Nobody Read: Chasing the Revolutions of Nicolaus Copernicus (2004)  Gingerich analyses the handwritten notes and marginal comments in the editions he had examined and found that while the mathematical sections of the book were usually heavily annotated, the sections where he defends his theory as a physical reality were generally not. This pattern seems to reflect the consensus of the time – that it was useful mathematically but unconvincing as a physical model. (Perhaps The Book that Was Inconsistently Annotated would have been a more accurate title, though it would have been hard to get a publisher to agree to that one).

And this also fits with the evidence on how few scholars actually accepted Copernicus’ theory prior to the Galileo Affair. Robert S. Westman’s survey of writings from 1514 to 1600 turns up just 11 writers who accepted Copernicanism as something other than a calculating device in this period: Thomas Digges and Thomas Hariot in England; Giordano Bruno and Galileo Galilei in Italy; Diego de Zuñiga in Spain; Simon Stevin in the Low Countries; and Georg Joachim Rheticus, Michael Maestlin, Christoph Rothmann, and Johannes Kepler in Germany, though it seems Rothmann later changed his mind (see Robert S. Westman, “The Astronomer’s Role in the Sixteenth Century: A Preliminary Study,” History of Science, 18 (1980): 105-147, p. 106). Pietro Daniel Omodeo’s survey of Copernicus’ reception in Copernicus in the Cultural Debates of the Renaissance: Reception, Legacy, Transformation  (2014) arrives at much the same conclusion, though he would argue the English scholar John Feild could possibly be added to the total. If we take the date right up to 1616, the eve of Galileo’s first encounter with the Roman Inquisition, we can also add William Lower and Paolo Foscarini. This means that when the Inquisition came to the conclusion that Copernicanism was “absurd in philosophy”, it had the overwhelming majority of European astronomers and physicists on its side. In other words, the Church backed the scientific consensus – contrary to the myth that the Galileo Affair was purely a case of “religion versus science”. Christopher Graney’s superb Setting Aside All Authority: Giovanni Battista Riccioli and the Science against Copernicus in the Age of Galileo(2015) shows just how strong the scientific case was against heliocentrism even a generation after Galileo and why the consensus of science did not change until well after Newton’s Principia Mathematica (1687). Despite this, many still strenuously resist the fact that the Church’s opposition to Galileo and heliocentrism was primarily based on this clear scientific consensus.

Of course, myths die hard, especially when they are bolstered by a combination of ignorance and prejudice. The myth that Copernicus feared religious persecution and delayed publication of his book as a result is nonsense. He was part of a late medieval/early modern culture that was already questioning the Ptolemaic and Aristotelian orthodoxy and looking for a more elegant and precise mathematical underpinning for astronomy. He did not keep his theories secret and was strongly encouraged and supported in his work by leading churchmen, including several bishops, three cardinals and the Pope. His hesitation came from his correct perception that Aristotelian scholastics would reject his thesis primarily on physical grounds, though their synthesis of that physics with theology would also be a motivator. Finally, when he did publish his work the religious objections were few and far outweighed by scientific ones until the discoveries of the seventeenth century slowly turned the consensus in the favour of heliocentrism.

116 thoughts on “The Great Myths 6: Copernicus’ Deathbed Publication

  1. Great summary and refutation of the myths surrounding Copernicus and Late Medieval / Early Modern science in general.
    Your work is simply brilliant.

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  2. Despite Melanchthon’s condemnation of heliocentricity several of the Wittenberg graduates, pupils of Melanchthon and his son in law Casper Peucer, taught Copernican heliocentricity as a purely mathematical hypothesis, an instrumental interpretation, at various Protestant universities in the late 16th century. Westman has another article describing this interpretation, which he labels “The Wittenberg Interpretation.”

  3. weight of the tradition supporting that synthesis that Tolosani feels cannot be overturned by a mere mathematicus, practising a “lower” discipline and not dealing sufficiently with the physical problems with his theory.

    Nothing changes. See the recent Lost in Math by Sabine Hossenfelder.

  4. An excellent article as always.

    I had read that there were only roughly a handful of people in Europe who, at the time of Galileo’s trail believed in the heliocentric model. Now I think I have a grasp on why this was so.

    On the other hand, Bruno as a supporter does not reassure one as to the validity of the theory. 🙂

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  5. Great information as always. I know this Is off topic, but are you going to wrote about the Galileo affair? Your Quora answer about it seems to be gone

    1. The Galileo Affair is a huge topic which will probably need several articles to cover all the misconceptions about it in sufficient detail. That also means I have a pile of books on the subject to read or re-read and annotate before I can tackle it, so it may be some time before I get to it. In the meantime, my Quora answer on it, brief as it is, is actually still up. But, despite having 3,229 upvotes, it’s buried under other answers to the same question thanks to Quora’s crazy ranking algorithm. Which is one of the reasons I abandoned Quora.

          1. I thought they gave rather short shrift to the Galileo affair. Not bad as in they had their facts wrong, but bad as in it gives limited understanding of the events.

          2. It was too brief to really judge. It’s a fact that Galileo was condemned and his book banned and it’s a fact that this influenced Descartes’ decision not to publish his own heliocentric work. They state these facts. There’s not really anything wrong with what they say that I can detect.

      1. “That also means I have a pile of books on the subject to read or re-read and annotate before I can tackle it..”

        Ideally, that should read 🙂 :

        “That also means I have a pile of books on the subject to write or edit and annotate before I can tackle it…”

  6. It might have been useful to mention the scientific objections:
    If the Earth were whipping through space, why was. the air or the Moon not left behind? Why did not people stumble about like drunkards? Why did an arrow, shot straight up, not fall to the west as the earth turned east beneath it? There was no discernible parallax among in the fixed stars, as the Copernican system predicted.
    (Oresme addressed some of these by supposing “common motion,” but you can’t save one unproven hypothesis by throwing in a second unproven hypothesis. Copernicus suggested the lack of parallax was because the stars were much farther away. But there were geometrical and scientific reasons to conclude the stellar sphere could not be too much farther than the Saturnian sphere and if that were so, the parallax would be obvious. The had no notion of the nature of gravity or inertia to find their way to a solution of these problems.

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    1. Actually I link to a summary of the scientific problems with Copernicanism the first time I mention them, in the section entitled “Copernicus’ Hesitation”.

      1. The lack of stellar parallax was the principal reason Tycho Brahe, the pre-eminent observational astronomer of the late 1500s, rejected heliocentrism, inserting a modified system plotting planetary orbits around the sun, while maintaining the sun orbited the Earth. It was the most obvious ‘failure’ of Copernicus’ model – and the primary observational difference that could immediately dispel either geocentric or heliocentric models of the solar system.
        Note the observation of stellar parallax did not occur until 1806 by Calandrelli (and followed by the renowned work of Friedrich Bessel in 1838). The stars were not located anywhere near the Earth and Sun – but were immeasurably distant – was not the only problem confronting heloicentrists. The observational evidence required to confirm a heliocentric solar system required better technology (telescopes that could clearly magnify distant objects) and better records of planetary motion (Tycho’s records as examined by Johannes Kepler).

        1. Yes. Again, I can recommend the book by Christopher Graney, which I reference in my article, on why the scientific objections to heliocentrism carried the day until well into the seventeenth century.

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          1. In the post itself you say “until well after Newton’s Principia Mathematica”, i.e. the very end of that century or the beginning of the eighteenth. Is that a mistake?

          2. No. The arguments for the Tychonian system predominated until Newton was able to give the Keplerian system a physical underpinning. But it took a while for the consensus to fully swing around behind this new solution. That wasn’t until the early eighteenth century.

          3. Thony C. definitely disagrees with you that the arguments for the Tychonic system predominated until well after the publication of Newton’s Principia. From https://thonyc.wordpress.com/2014/08/27/galileo-foscarini-the-catholic-church-and-heliocentricity-in-1615-part-2-the-consequences-a-rough-guide/
            “In reality the heliocentricity became accepted by almost all astronomers whether Catholic or non-Catholic by around 1660, long before any empirical proof existed, on the basis of accumulated circumstantial evidence and the lack of a convincing alternative.”

          4. He doesn’t disagree with me at all. See my reply to his comment about this on this thread.

  7. It is perhaps worth pointing out there is nothing terribly unusual about controversial or radical ideas being disseminated among a tight circle of friends prior to very late, even posthumous publication. The work of the Inklings springs to mind, as does pretty much the entire corpus of work of Hugh Trevor-Roper, or E.M. Forster’s Maurice.

    1. And then there’s Wittgenstein. Other than the youthful Tractatus which he backed away from as a mature thinker and a couple articles, all his published writing was posthumous. I guess he didn’t want to be pinned down again. That seems like a pretty good reason not to publish in ones lifetime.

  8. Hi, Tim.

    Some comment for Luther’s quotation above. I think by the quotation, Luther didn’t disparage the ‘astronomer’ above based on religious grounds.

    The quote is clear :

    ““There was mention of a certain astrologer who wanted to prove that the earth moves and not the sky, the sun, and the moon. This would be as if somebody were riding on a cart or in a ship and imagined that he was standing still while the earth and the trees were moving. [Luther remarked] ”

    I think he used common sense and the prevailing view of Geocentrism which had been ‘connected’to the bible verse in Joshua.

    What do you think?

    Anyways, great article. Looking forward for the new one.

    1. The cart analogy is to explain how someone could argue that the earth is moving when it seems that it isn’t. Then he states he doesn’t accept this argument by reference to Joshua 10:12. I think this is pretty clearly a mainly religious argument. The real issue with it is (i) was he referring to Copernicus at all, (ii) did he have any real knowledge of the theory, given the date of the comment and (iii) was it anything more than a passing quip.

      1. One can be even suspicious of the importance of the Luther quote. In my own blog post on the reception of Copernicus I wrote the following:

        The case of Luther is much more interesting and is a classic example of how a supposed historical fact is misused to support an argument of much greater historical significance than it actually has or had. In Luther’s Table Talk (German Tischreden) we can read the following story from Anthony Lauterbach:

        There was mention of a certain astrologer who wanted to prove that the earth moves and not the sky, the sun, and the moon. This would be as if somebody were riding on a cart or in a ship and imagined that he was standing still while the earth and the trees were moving. [Luther remarked] “So it goes now. Whoever wants to be clever must agree with nothing that others esteem. He must do something of his own. This is what that fellow does who wishes to turn the whole of astronomy upside down. Even in these things that are thrown into disorder I believe the Holy Scriptures, for Joshua commanded the sun to stand still and not the earth [Jos. 10:12].”

        Here we have it at last a religious rejection of heliocentricity by a very major sixteenth century religious figure, case proved or is it? If one actually examines the context of this quote then its significance actually dwindles to almost nothing. The Tischreden are just what the tittle says they are they are records of the conversations that took place around the dinner table in Luther’s house. Luther was a professor at the University of Wittenberg and like many other university professors in the Renaissance his house was also a boarding house for rich students whose payments for board and lodging helped to supplement the professor’s income whilst reassuring anxious parents that their, mostly teenage, sons were under suitable supervision whilst attending the university. Luther was a bon vivant, who greatly enjoyed his food and drink in copious quantities so his evening meals were grand affairs with many people seated at the table enjoying the hospitality and entertaining conversation of their host. The conversation in question was recorded in 1539 but first published in 1566 long after Luther’s death so it cannot be authenticated. The date of its occurrence is of course before the publication of both Rheticus’ Naratio prima as well as Copernicus’ De revolutionibus and as we have very good grounds to believe that the Commentariolus was not know in Wittenberg at this time the entire conversation is based on hearsay, the participants never having read any account of Copernicus’ hypothesis.

        What we actually have, in the passage quoted, is a man in his cup making a throw away quip to impress his dinner guests with his intellectual quick-wittedness. Nowhere else in his voluminous writings or in the records of his lectures and speeches does Luther mention Copernicus or his hypothesis with a single word. Also possibly more important nobody in the sixteenth or seventeenth centuries quotes this passage from the Tischreden as Luther’s opinion on heliocentricity, it is first in the nineteenth century that we find this passage being used as a so-called proof for the religious rejection of heliocentricity in the early modern period.

        1. Thanks Thony. I can highly recommend Thony’s article “Acceptance, rejection and indifference to heliocentricity before 1610”, which I used as one of my sources of guidance for my article above. For those who aren’t already familiar with it, Thony’s excellent blog The Renaissance Mathematicus is a superb collection of useful articles and one of the very best online resources on the history of early science and the many myths and misconceptions associated with that topic.

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  9. If Copernicus was objecting to elements of the synthesis of Aristotle and “theology,” then wouldn’t it find itself in conflict with, if not all the Church, but at least the Aristotelian element in the Church?

    1. Yes, and that is what he and Osiander are referring to when they talk about the opposition of “the Peripatetics”. But their objection to Copernicus’ thesis cannot be characterised as purely religious. The Catholic Church, then and now, did not and does not hold that the Bible must always be interpreted literally. They were happy to accept that certain scriptures could and should be interpreted allegorically (or morally, or eschatologically or any number of combinations of these readings). This is why they accepted that the Earth was round and interpreted Biblical references that, if read literally, indicated it was flat as symbolic or allegorical. It’s also why Cardinal Bellarmine, in his 1615 letter to Paolo Foscarini, said that – if heliocentrism could be proven – the Church could and should reinterpret several Biblical texts that implied geocentrism (and that is what the Church quietly did post-Newton).

      The reason Aristotelian theologians had a problem with Copernicanism which became more marked as it gained ground as a theory was not purely because of the traditional interpretation of relevant scriptures, but because that interpretation was underpinned by Aristotle’s physics and the Ptolemaic geocentric synthesis. Even after 1610, when Marius, Harriot, and Lembo all used the new telescope technology to observe the phases of Venus and so disproved Ptolemaic geocentrism, there was still the Tychonian geo-heliocentric model that fitted the new data and, unlike Copernicus’ theory, conformed to Aristotelian physics. This is why the frontispiece of Giovanni Riccioli’s Almagestum novum (1651) shows Ptolemy prostrate and defeated, while Urania, the muse of astronomy, weighs up the Copernican and Tychonian models, with her scales favouring Tycho.

      Riccioli's frontispiece

      The key point here is that “the Peripatetics” did not reject Copernicanism on solely or even primarily theological grounds. The issue was the theology seemed to be underpinned by science – contrary to the myths.

  10. I guess the biblical and theological problem was stressed right after Copernicus; as your own examples suggest, above.

    And then that side grew? As more people noted that one of the Church’s main doctrines – its promises of many supernatural miracles – was also contradicted by science? As emerging science and reason, Hume, began to stress natural, not supernatural causality.

    1. I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. My examples show that the the only substantial reactions that really had any theological element were the ones based on the “Peripatetic” synthesis of theology and Aristotelian physics. And that was primarily because of the underpinning science in that synthesis. And I really don’t understand your second comment at all. What side “grew”? There was nothing new in the idea that most causes were natural rather than supernatural and to this day Christians are able to see miracles as exceptional suspensions of the natural norm.

  11. Miracles were exceptions to the norm. But given the huge numbers of them in the Bible – even” all” and “whatever” we “ask” for (John 14.13) – any finding that, as according to science, the natural forces were more imprtant than supernatural ones, would seem to attack a major emphasis in the churches.

    1. Again, the idea then as now was that miracles happened and were exceptions to the rule, given they were suspensions of that natural order. So the increasing knowledge of how the natural order worked did not greatly undermine faith. I also have no idea what any of this has to do with Copernicus or anything I said in my article.

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      1. The alleged antagonism of the Church for science is the larger question, of which the treatment of Copernicus by the Church is a part.

        So I’m wondering where any perceived antagonism came from. If not from from a conflict between the Church and say, Copernicus, and others like him.

        I’m suggesting that the Church could not avoid some conflct; given that most everyday Catholics believed in a literal reading of supernatural miracles in the Bible. In the average Catholic Church, for instance, sprinkling holy water on a sick person, or praying for recovery, was hoped to be a cure.

        However many layers of allegorical and other interpretation the Church intellectuals offered, the vast bulk of everyday Catholics abd like level priests, seem to have believed in supernatural miracles.

        And that put the vast bulk of Christians into conflict with early and later scientists.

        1. And, as I said, Christianity in most of its forms has long since reconciled the idea of miracles with the idea that nature follows laws. So there is no intrinsic conflict between believing in occasional miracles or even accepting all the miracles in the Bible and fully accepting the claims of science. This is why there always have been and still are plenty of scientists who are also devout Christians.

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    2. We tend to think the Bible is absolutely filled with miracles, but in reality when you take into account the number of years over which the story is told, there arent really that many. Remember, for example, that Jesus’ public ministry was over a period of around 3 years. And the OT covers more than 1500 years.

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  12. Hi Tim,
    Good post as always. Mind if I ask you a question of the “does this ring any bells” type? It’s something I remember reading in an academic text at some point (may have been either history or philosophy), but I don’t remember where and thus I don’t know whether it’s true or maybe I’ve made it all up. The point being that the Catholic church not only never had a literalist interpretation of the Bible, but they instead always had five or six different layers of interpretation for *any* passage in the Bible simultaneously, at least in principle. So that even for a passage which could be read completely literally it nevertheless had different interpretations anyway, despite the possibility of a literal reading. Moral, eschatological, relating the OT and the NT, about the future or the paradise, allegorical, one where for example a given individual was in fact a representative of a type of people (something like, I don’t know, Abraham representing all people who place utmost trust in God maybe), and so on. Does this ring any bells?

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    1. This is all correct. The idea that the Bible should only or primarily be interpreted literally is a modern, most Protestant and largely American evangelical affair, though many atheists don’t understand this and so project it onto “Christianity” generally and project it back into the medieval and Late Roman past. This is often done by American atheists, who often grew up in or around fundamentalist churches which teach Biblical literalism, but we can also see atheists like Dawkins assuming literalism because their main exposure to Christianity has been through fighting Creationism, which is founded on this modern American literalism. This means many atheists not only assume literalism as Christianity’s default setting, but also think any non-literal interpretations of the Bible are very recent and are merely a face-saving reaction to modern science and therefore represent a retreat from and dilution of “real” Christianity.

      All of which makes a lot of their simplistic critiques little more than quaint for Christians from the older denominations like the Orthodox traditions or Catholicism. I obviously totally disagree with David Bently Hart’s rather smug apologism, but his skewering of this naive approach to Biblical exegesis by many atheists in his Atheist Delusions (2009) is pretty acute. A hell of a lot of new atheist criticism simply bounces off most Christians largely because it isn’t aimed at Christianity but at a caricature of it based largely on American-style evangelical Protestantism.

      As for the four levels of exegesis maintained by most non-Protestant (and some Protestant) traditions, it was established by the time of John Cassian (c. 360-435 AD) and popularised by Augustine and Gregory the Great. It was so common they even had a little Latin poem to help students remember it:

      Litera gesta docet,
      Quid credas allegoria,
      Moralis quid agas,
      Quo tendas anagogia.

      Which translates as “The letter instructs about what things were done; Allegory teaches us what we should believe; the moral level shows what to do; the anagogical signals aspects of the (spiritual and future) realm toward which we are directed.” Any Biblical text had at least one of these meanings, but could have two, three or all four. And a verse that had been interpreted literally could be reinterpreted as having no literal meaning but having one or more of the other ones, which is how the texts that had been invoked in line with Ptolemaic (or, later, Tychonian) cosmology came to be reinterpreted once the scientific consensus on heliocentrism changed. Which is what Cardinal Bellarmine had said should happen in his letter to Foscarini back in 1615.

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      1. As a formerly religious person, I attended dozens of churches. And heard a thousand sermons and homilies; and read learned theologians ; Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, etc.. And about half of them apologetically defended magical ideas, miracles.

        This put Christianity rather substantially, if not wholly, in opposition to Science.

        This is the main reason I became an agnostic or atheist.

        I had heard many apologetics arguments, suggesting the promises of miracles were not literal, but “spiritual.” But then it seemed to me that after all, the notion of invisible anthropomorphic spirits, was itself still a supernatural belief.

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        1. Again, and for the third time, there is no intrinsic conflict between belief in miracles as exceptional suspensions of natural law and acceptance of science as the study of basis and effects of that natural law. So no, belief in miracles does not put Christianity “substantially in opposition to science”. Science is the study of those natural laws. Miracles are believed to be rare suspensions of them. That they can be occasionally suspended is a theological belief that science cannot actually definitively disprove. All someone like me, who does not believe in any God or any miracles, can do is point to fact that most supposed miracles are either dubious reports, ancient stories or have natural explanations. But that does not in itself mean that miracles definitely can’t happen – science can’t prove that.

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          1. The great number and omnipresence of recounted and promised miracles, as recounted by Christian churches, leaves the impression that they are not regarded there, as entirely exceptional. Indeed, a holy ghost is said to be present every second of every day, everywhere.

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          2. Sorry, but the number of supposed miracles is dwarfed by the number of non-miraculous events that happen at a rate of billions per millisecond. So the miracles are still execeptional and rare suspensions of natural law. And the alleged existence of the “Holy Ghost” is not a suspension of natural law, but is, allegedly, outside the natural altogether.

            We are now well off topic for my article above and I’m really not interested in explaining theology that I don’t believe in to you any more. Further comments which are about Copernicus are welcome. Others aren’t. If you really want to discuss this stuff go find a Christian.

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  13. Well, I’m concerned that nearly all of the arguments you’ve used in defense of the Church’s attitude toward Copernicus, I’ve heard earlier from the Church itself. Which is eager today not to appear incompatible with the science and technology that history has shown to be fantastically fruitful.

    But those arguments most would call apologetics. And I suggest that none of them will really hold up to an adequate, lengthy examination. Useful as say, NOM or Non Overlapping Magisteria is to both the Church and science.

    Given that, I’m left wondering whether the account of Copernicus you mostly champion, is unbiased.

    You yourself have suggested that the problem with arguments against the Church, was that they were really mostly about science; Aristotelian versus post Aristotelian science. But? You seem to admit it was to a small degree about theology; Aristotelian “theology.” Thus leaving an argument against the Church and its particular beliefs, its ubiquitous and anti-natural supernaturalisms, as at least a small part of the mix.

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    1. ” I’m concerned that nearly all of the arguments you’ve used in defense of the Church’s attitude toward Copernicus, I’ve heard earlier from the Church itself. “

      And I’m concerned that you think I am making some kind of “defence of the Church”. I’m simply explaining what happened and why and showing how the idea that Copernicus feared Church persecution is baseless. If you think that is a “defence of the Church” then I’d say you need to check your own assumptions and prejudices.

      “But those arguments most would call apologetics.”

      Then go talk to the apologists who make those arguments. I am working from the arguments of historians and have no interest in any apologetic arguments or in any “defence of the Church”. Unless such “defences” can be sustained by reference to actual consensus, they are as invalid as the atheist myths I am debunking here. Again, the fact that you seem to be confusing the historical consensus I’m presenting with that kind of apologetics is an indication of some erroneous assumptions and prejudices on your part.

      “You seem to admit it was to a small degree about theology; Aristotelian “theology.” Thus leaving an argument against the Church and its particular beliefs, its ubiquitous and anti-natural supernaturalisms, as at least a small part of the mix.”

      “Admit”? More weirdly loaded language. I simply note that Copernicus did not fear religious persecution and his thesis got little to no purely religious criticism. The criticism from the “Peripatetics” was based on the synthesis between Aristotelian natural philosophy and theology. So certain texts from the Bible were read literally primarily because they conformed to Greek science. The science was driving that interpretation. So to claim this somehow represents some “ubiquitous … anti-natural supernaturalism” is dead wrong. Again, you seem to be getting entangled in your own erroneous assumptions and prejudices and they are causing you to fail to understand things on several points. Try thinking more objectively and rationally – prejudices usually get in the way of doing that.

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      1. Since c. 400-1,000 AD, most western historians have been Christians of course. And it was all too easy to incorporate the boilerplate self defences of the Church into their histories.

        More recently, some historians have been trying to be more impartial. In the present case, the finding seems to be that the Church did not actively persecute Copernicus in his own lifetime.

        Though? This might be explained in part in some time lag in realizing his anti biblical implications. Which you note, were noticed after him, by others. Including protestants.

        Lack of much direct And immediate confrontation might also be explained by Copernicus and friends noting the importance of a protective circumspection. To avoid criticism from scientists. But possibly from the Church too, we might suspect.

        So it might seem that the persecution, criticism of Copernicus was not so much direct or immediate. Or just from the Church itself. Though? You do mention some Christian criticism of him, in part in biblical terms.

        So maybe we shouldn’t let Christianity, the churches (including protestants), even The Church itself, off the hook entirely. Particularly if we look at what they said and did some time after him.

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        1. “Since c. 400-1,000 AD, most western historians have been Christians of course. “

          That’s a bizarre comment. What’s that got to do with the state of affairs now?

          “More recently, some historians have been trying to be more impartial.”

          And that’s a stupid comment. All professional historians have to be impartial because they otherwise they will be ripped to pieces in peer review and their careers will crash and burn. You don’t seem to have a clue about how history is studied.

          ” In the present case, the finding seems to be that the Church did not actively persecute Copernicus in his own lifetime.”

          Because they didn’t. Not “actively”. And not at all. Then they didn’t condemn his work when it was released. They didn’t condemn it until Galileo began using it to re-interpret the Bible and so got himself entangled in the politics of the Counter Reformation.

          “This might be explained in part in some time lag in realizing his anti biblical implications. “

          That is total and complete garbage. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about and are just clutching at any random idea that might let you cling to your prejudices.

          “Lack of much direct And immediate confrontation might also be explained by Copernicus and friends noting the importance of a protective circumspection.”

          And that is nonsense too. I detailed why in my article above. Did you actually read my article?

          “You do mention some Christian criticism of him, in part in biblical terms.”

          In part, but mainly on scientific terms. Again, the issue was that the interpretations of several scriptural texts were supported by the science of the day. It was the *science** that was the issue. You seem, to be actively trying not to understand. I think my patience with you is starting to run out.

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  14. 1) Was it mostly a scientific dispute? You say ” mostly,” but acknowledge a theological religious element. Let’s therefore look for more.

    2) The fact that many of your arguments are standard church apologetics (like NOM) suggest a greater degree of religious involvement.

    3) That adds to notorious problems with miracles, we know the Church was experiencing some general conflict with science. (From the below). Eventually in fact, early versions of NOM tried to simply partition the two; to separate the combatants. When Paul and the Church began to stress its “spiritual” function, for instance, it increasingly defaulted on physical material, scientific, “worldly” claims.

    4) So the Church was actually abandoning science. Both through early versions if NOM, and very early antimaterialistic spirituality.

    And therefore?It’s objections were less “scientific” than your sources suggest. In spite of ties to say Aristotle’s science, most the Church, in its Pauline move to “spirituality,” had long since actually begun to give up on physical material claims; and therefore, all of science.

    Both elements remained to some degree. But you misjudge their proportion. Strictly religious, unscientific “spirituality” was huge in the Church. To the point that to this very day, to be religious, and to be “spiritual,” are synonyms.
    And religion and science are today rightly thought to be rigorously different. As they indeed had begun to be as early as Paul, or spirituality, c. 55 AD.

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    1. “Was it mostly a scientific dispute? You say ” mostly,” but acknowledge a theological religious element.”

      How may times do I have to explain to you that the few objections there were to his theory were based on the fact that those theological elements were supported by science? Yet you keep completely ignoring this and fixating on the fact there were some “religious elements”. Try to focus on what is actually being said.

      “The fact that many of your arguments are standard church apologetics (like NOM) suggest a greater degree of religious involvement.”

      What does that even mean? Leaving aside the fact that this sentence is total gibberish, my arguments are not “standard church apologetics”. They are standard historical analysis of the subject. If some apologists happen to sometimes point out this historical analysis, that has nothing at all to do with me. Apologists probably also say grass is green, but that doesn’t make me doing so “standard church apologetics”, nor does it make the idea that grass is green somehow dubious.

      “That adds to notorious problems with miracles”

      This again? What has that got to do with anything I’ve said?

      “So the Church was actually abandoning science.”

      Garbage.

      “And therefore?It’s objections were less “scientific” than your sources suggest. “

      You are making less and less sense with every one of your incoherent comments. Sorry – my patience is at an end. Goodbye.

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    2. I must admit some confusion about GPG discussing the Catholic Church applying the NOMA principle in the 16th century. I was under the impression NOMA was originally proposed in the late 1990’s by Stephen Jay Gould in an article by the same name in Natural History Magazine, and is applicable to religions other than Christianity. How is an idea put forward by a Jewish agnostic in a magazine on Natural History “Christian apologetics?”

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      1. Exactly. I find the entire distinction between theological and scientific objections very artificial (for the 16th Century and before) and in any case anachronistic. So I’d just like to add that pointing out theological objections by no means provides evidence for prosecution. There had been many theological discussions since 1100 CE or so without any prosecution of any participant. Some scholars were punished (Abelard) indeed and others came close (Wycliffe). There is simply zero evidence that Copernicus ever faced any such threat and there is good evidence that several religious authorities actively stimulated him. They are mentioned above. End of discussion.
        Everything else is nothing but explaining away and “Copernicus was persecuted” is the atheist version of apologetics, ie “logical” arguments replacing evidence.

  15. My undergraduate honors thesis was on Copernicus and the early Protestant reformers, and I read Westman’s *Copernican Question*, so this was a super exciting post for me. I think that you did a really good job going over all of the issues and explaining the medieval/early modern devotion to Aristotelian principles, particularly those articulated by Ptolemy, made Copernicus’ theories far harder to accept as physical realities than any passages in Psalms declaring that “the earth is fixed and shall not move. ” It’s also important to understand that, as you pointed out, Copernicus’ model and mathematics were also hampered by his adherence to the Aristotelean ideal of perfect heavenly spheres. So, while Copernicus got some things right, most notably heliocentrism, he certainly didn’t get the whole picture.

    There’s so much more material to draw on here too, even beyond the really thorough overview that you’ve given here. If your readers are interested, Rheticus’ own commentary on and defense of Copernicus’ work is a really helpful and pretty readable primary source. In addition to better demonstrating how a Protestant like Rheticus could enthusiastically embrace and promote Copernicus’ theory, it also provides a good understanding of how Copernicus’ models, and other astronomy models of the time, could be used. Westman’s book is also a great secondary source treatment on the ways in which astronomy and astrology intertwined in the 15th and 16th century and pushed astronomers to develop mathematical models of the movements of the heavenly spheres (and all the various epicycles) that better predicted the positions of the stars. After all, one can’t really cast an accurate horoscope otherwise. As unintuitive as it may seem and as you’ve been great at demonstrating, sometimes medieval and early modern superstitions actually spurred on actual scientific research and led to discoveries about the physical reality.

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  16. Thanks again Tim.

    I was struck by the earnestness in the appeals directed to Copernicus to share and expand his models. These were, I dare to hope, like academics of any age, eager to discuss something new. Even if they might not agree with it, they wanted to understand it.

  17. I’m somewhat dubious of your claim that the consensus in favor of heliocentrism did not abate until well after Newton’s Principia. My best guess is that the majority of top astronomers and physists were already heliocentrists by the 1660s and certainly by the 1670s. The only major exceptions I can find are Riccioli and Cassini. As prominent as these two were, they do not seem any more prominent (even without the benefit of hindsight) than e.g. Huygens, Descartes, Hevelius, Newton, and Halley who I’m pretty sure were all on record as heliocentrists prior to 1680. (I think Leibniz and Flamsteed were also heliocentrists, but I’m not 100% sure based on what I could find. It looks to me like their arguments with Newton presuppose heliocentrism, but I could be wrong.)

    It makes sense that this should be the case given that physical evidence in favor of the Earth’s rotation had already been presented in the form of Richer’s pendulum experiments (as interpreted by Newton,) and Huygens had already given experimental support for the idea that apparent stellar discs were spurious and given a much larger estimate for the distances to stars based on apparent brightness.

    I’m also a bit skeptical that the consensus in favor of geocentrism, even ca. 1600 was that large. Sure, you only list 11 writers in favor of heliocentrism, but it would be helpful to see how many clear examples of writing against heliocentrism there were prior to this period. It does seem telling to me how prominent the heliocentrists turned out to be, even in matters that were only loosely related to the geocentrist/heliocentrist debate (here I’m thinking in particular of Galileo, Kepler, and Stevin)

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    1. “My best guess is that the majority of top astronomers and physists were already heliocentrists by the 1660s and certainly by the 1670s.”

      Your best guess is based on what, exactly? A comprehensive survey? The people you list were certainly heliocentrists and heliocentrism definitely gained considerable ground in the second half of the century, but I’m afraid unless you’ve done a survey of the relevant literature a “best guess” isn’t going to count for much. That aside, my point is that the consensus did not become overwhelmingly in favour of heliocentrism until well after Newton. The momentuum toward that point had been building for some time, especially after 1687.

      “I’m also a bit skeptical that the consensus in favor of geocentrism, even ca. 1600 was that large. Sure, you only list 11 writers in favor of heliocentrism, but it would be helpful to see how many clear examples of writing against heliocentrism there were prior to this period.”

      That number on the other hand is based on careful and comprehensive surveys of the literature, done separately by both Robert S. Westman and by Pietro Daniel Omodeo. So it is not a “best guess” – it’s based on careful analysis of the evidence. I am not just listing some writers who favoured heliocentrism up to this point – I’m listing ALL of them. That’s kind of the point.

      1. Thanks for the reply.

        As for the list of 11 heliocentrists, I have no idea whether that’s a lot or a little unless I know how much writing from the same period survives that clearly denies the validity of the Copernican theory as a true description of reality. Do you have such a list or know where I could find one? Also, beyond mere numbers, there is the question of who would be on that list — would it include scientists as brilliant as Galileo, Kepler, Digges, and Stevin? How many? I don’t know, but I don’t see how, without providing such a list, you can support a claim like the following:

        “This means that when the Inquisition came to the conclusion that Copernicanism was “absurd in philosophy”, it had the overwhelming majority of European astronomers and physicists on its side.”

        Mind you, I’m not saying you can’t, I’d just like to see it if you can. I do not claim to have the final word on these issues. I am merely pointing out that what’s in the article does not (and should not, I think) convince me of some of your central claims and giving examples of ways the article might be supplemented to better support those claims (if they are indeed true).

        1. “Do you have such a list or know where I could find one?”

          I doubt anyone has “listed” all such works, largely because there are hundreds of them. That’s kind of the point. Or do you think that scholars of the calibre of Westman and Omodeo noted the very small number of pro-heliocentric without noticing or mentioning that there were also very few non-heliocentric works and so the small number of pro works is therefore not significant? These scholars are not idiots. You seem to be working very hard to find reasons to disbelieve the idea that the consensus was against heliocentrism. And you don’t seem to be doing so from a basis of detailed knowledge of the subject. This makes me wonder about the motivation for this need to disbelieve something that is accepted by historians of science who have studied this stuff for their entire lives.

          “would it include scientists as brilliant as Galileo, Kepler, Digges, and Stevin?”

          Yes, it would. People like Brahe, Clavius, Wittich, Rothmann, Reinhold, Grienberger and many, many others. Unless you want to try to define “brilliant” as “agreeing with a theory that, in retrospect, we now know was right despite that not being at all clear at the time”. Again, you seem to be trying very hard to dismiss the idea that there were very good, scientific reasons for heliocentrism to be rejected in this period.

          1. Fair enough.

            Let’s set some goalposts. In my mind, a consensus denotes at the very least 70% of expert opinion, while an overwhelming consensus had better be something in excess of 90%. I would have these numbers in mind when trying to establish that there was a consensus or an overwhelming consensus of physicists and astronomers for or against Copernicus at various dates.

            I think the dates that are most relevant to your argument are

            1) The period from 1543 to 1600
            2) 1616, when the inquisition banned heliocentric works
            3) 1651, when Riccioli published his New Almagest
            4) 1686, when Newton published his Principia

            Most of the data you’ve provided so far covers 1 and 2.

            Let’s discuss the first period: The list of 16th century Copernicans compiled by your two sources includes by my count 9 who may be uncontroversially described as physicists or astronomers:
            Copernicus, Rheticus, Stevin, Digges, Kepler, Galileo, Harriot, Maestlin, and John Field. To counter these names you have provided 6 examples of anti-Copernican astronomers from the same period. To establish consensus against Copernicus, you therefore would need an additional 8 examples and to establish overwhelming consensus, you would need an additional 75. You say there are many more examples, and I don’t particularly doubt it, but how many?

            As for 1616, where you unambiguously claim an overwhelming consensus in favor of the proposition that Copernicanism was not just false but absurd, I think you have even more work to do. Of the Copernican astronomers listed, 5 survived to 1616 to which you add Foscarini. Of the antiCopernicans you list, only Grienberger was alive at the time, and his example seems a bit problematic for arguing the opposition was scientific as opposed to religious, since we have this from wikipedia: “Grienberger sympathized with Galileo’s theory of motion. However, he was asked to defend the Aristotelian view of the universe by Claudio Acquaviva, the Father General of the Jesuits.” Leaving that aside for the moment, it seems we would need an additional 53 names to establish an overwhelming consensus of astronomers against Copernican theory in 1616.

            As for periods 3 and 4, you haven’t provided me much in the way of data. My guess is that heliocentrism had majority support among astronomers in 1651 and consensus, but not overwhelming consensus support, in 1686. If you have data or other reasons for suspecting otherwise please let me know.

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          2. @ Ray

            “Let’s discuss the first period: The list of 16th century Copernicans compiled by your two sources includes by my count 9 who may be uncontroversially described as physicists or astronomers:
            Copernicus, Rheticus, Stevin, Digges, Kepler, Galileo, Harriot, Maestlin, and John Field. To counter these names you have provided 6 examples of anti-Copernican astronomers from the same period. To establish consensus against Copernicus, you therefore would need an additional 8 examples and to establish overwhelming consensus, you would need an additional 75. You say there are many more examples, and I don’t particularly doubt it, but how many?”

            Of your nine at least three are for varying reasons questionable. The first is surprisingly Rheticus. Although he was the author of Naratio Prima and brought De revolutionibus the Nürnberg to be published in his later life he appears to have abandoned Copernicus. He never published anything more in support of Copernicus but did go on about building a large gnomon and practicing true Egyptian astronomy! Not exactly Copernican

            The second is John Feild (not Field), who is at best dubious he only published an ephemeris based on Reinhold’s tables. Omodeo see him as a Copernican but other historians disagree.

            The third is Thomas Harriot, very definitely a heliocentrist but a Keplerian not a Copernican. This is in the future development of astronomy and cosmology important, as Kepler’s elliptical astrology was viewed as a competitor to Copernicus’ system. This however not the reason why Harriot is dubious but because he never published anything. He’s not part of the debate because he remained silent.

            And please, if you are discounting non-astronomers then don’t include Foscarinni, he was a theologian not a scientist in any sense.

            A short list of anti-Copernican put together off the top of my head, you asked for at least 8 my list has 14, there are as Tim says in fact many more ( I have no idea how you arrive at the number 75!):

            Christoph Scheiner, Johann Georg Locher, Simon Marius, Christen Longomontanus, Duncan Liddel, Casper Peucer, John Craig, Helisaeus Roeslin, Paolo Lembo, Odo Van Maelcote, Giovanni Antonio Magini, Nicolaus Raimarus Ursus, Johannes Praetorius, David Origanus

            Contrary to popular opinion there were not just 2 or 3 systems standing to debate in the second decade of the seventeenth century.

            We have geocentrism with and without diurnal rotation (strictly both of them disproved by the discovery of the phases of Venus but quite a lot of conservative scholars clung to them for a time), Tychonic geo-heliocentrism with and without diurnal rotation ( both fully consistent with the known empirical facts, the Heracleidian system, Venus and Mercury orbit the Sun which together with all the other planets orbits the Earth with and without diurnal rotation, Copernican heliocentricism and lastly Kepler’s elliptical heliocentric system. If you think the distinction between Copernicus and Kepler is not valid remember Galileo rejected Kepler’s system in favour of Copernicus’.

            By about 1650-1660 this had largely been reduced to a two horse race between a Tychonic system with diurnal rotation and Kepler’s elliptical astronomy. The preference for diurnal rotation in the Tychonic system was partially due to William Gilbert’s support for diurnal rotation in a geocentric system.

            I am now going to contradict Tim and acknowledge that you are indeed correct, by about 1670 the overwhelming majority of astronomers supported Kepler’s elliptical astronomy. Interestingly, although there was no empirical proof for either annual or diurnal rotation the Tychonic system fell out of favour through a rare application of Occam’s Razor. The Tychonic system was simply seen as too complex in comparison to the much more elegant Keplerian system. The empirical proof for elliptical orbits already having been delivered by Cassini.

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          3. “I am now going to contradict Tim and acknowledge that you are indeed correct, by about 1670 the overwhelming majority of astronomers supported Kepler’s elliptical astronomy. “

            You’re not contradicting me there at all mate. I’m well aware that the majority had swung behind Kepler by that stage of the century. I think the issue here is people haven’t quite understood what I was saying in this sentence in the final paragraph of my article:

            “Christopher Graney’s superb Setting Aside All Authority: Giovanni Battista Riccioli and the Science against Copernicus in the Age of Galileo (2015) shows just how strong the scientific case was against heliocentrism even a generation after Galileo and why the consensus of science did not change until well after Newton’s Principia Mathematica (1687).”

            I’m not saying that the majority continued to accept a geocentric or geo-heliocentric conception until well after Newton. I’m saying that it was Newton that provided the final piece of the puzzle that made rejection of heliocentrism pretty much unreasonable. Plenty had accepted it well before this – as you say, thanks to a combination of Kepler and Occam’s Razor – but it was after 1687 that the final hold outs against heliocentrism crumbled. That was when we start to see the Catholic Church begin to (quietly) dismantle the formal objections to heliocentrism, though as with anything the Catholic Church does that process took centuries.

    2. Oops. That first sentence should say “…the consensus against heliocentrism did not abate…”

      Also, I have another primary source from 1677, which seems to indicate that heliocentrism was already the consensus at least in the UK: See figure 13 ( https://archive.org/stream/philosophicaltra02royarich#page/n732/mode/1up ) accompanying the summary (https://archive.org/stream/philosophicaltra02royarich#page/397/mode/1up) to the Royal Society of Roemer’s measurement of the speed of light. This diagram clearly shows the Earth orbiting the sun and passes with no comment that the arrangement is dubious or merely for ease of calculation or some such.

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      1. Sorry, but I’m afraid that is not good evidence of the consensus changing that early. Rømer was certainly a proponent of Kepler’s heliocentrism, as (presumably) was whoever wrote that note on his argument re the speed of light for the Royal Society. But the reason that note doesn’t comment on it being “dubious” is that the idea was well known as one of the options available. It just wasn’t well accepted. The fact that Rømer’s calculations were based on Kepler’s model was actually a major barrier to its acceptance. As the Wiki article on the subject notes:

        “While it was difficult for many (such as Hooke) to conceive of the enormous speed of light, acceptance of Rømer’s idea suffered a second handicap in that they were based on Kepler’s model of the planets orbiting the Sun in elliptical orbits. While Kepler’s model had widespread acceptance by the late seventeenth century, it was still considered sufficiently controversial for Newton to spend several pages discussing the observational evidence in favour in his Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica (1687).

        Rømer’s view that the velocity of light was finite was not fully accepted until measurements of stellar aberration were made in 1727 by James Bradley (1693–1762).[14] Bradley, who would be Halley’s successor as Astronomer Royal, calculated a value of 8 minutes 13 seconds for light to travel from the Sun to Earth.[14] Ironically, stellar aberration had first been observed by Cassini and (independently) by Picard in 1671, but neither astronomer was able to give an explanation for the phenomenon.[3] Bradley’s work also laid to rest any remaining serious objections to the Keplerian model of the Solar System.” (“Rømer’s determination of the speed of light”)

        So no, neither Rømer’s calculation nor the RS note indicate that the consensus had changed by 1677. With Bradley’s later measurements, they represents steps toward that consensus changing.

      2. Hi Thony.

        Thanks for the info. And Tim, thanks for the clarification.

        So, it looks like, given Tim’s clarification, we don’t disagree much on the state of astronomy after 1660. There still remains the issue of 1616 and earlier.

        Tim says in the article that the “overwhelming majority” of European astromers and physicists agreed that Copernicanism was “absurd in philosophy,” which I take to mean something like 90%. This still seems wrong. I remain skeptical that this sort of consensus existed even before the telescope. As I was saying before, to counter 9 known pre-telescopic Copernican astronomers you’d need 81 anti-Copernican astronomers (of which Tim had provided 6. Leaving 75). Adding in Thony’s 15 anticopernicans and subtracting those Copernicans he finds questionable would leave the total at 21 against Copernicus and 6 in favor, of those who have a clear opinion. This comes to 78% or so, which is still probably short of overwhelming. I recognize that Thony’s list is incomplete (although scrutiny similar to what he’s applying to the Copernicans may trim the list of anti-Copernicans as well. More importantly, the Church’s position in its 1616 declaration was strong enough in its language that fence sitters and other ambiguous cases should probably be counted against the Church. In any event, it does not appear to me that the Church based its opinion on an unbiased survey of the opinions of astronomers and physicists. Rather it looks like, to the extent astronomers and physicists were consulted at all, they were hand picked and explicitly instructed by their superiors in the Church to support Aristotle.

        Rather than trying to debate dozens of names, perhaps Tim could clarify what he means by “overwhelming majority.” Of those astronomers and physicists qualified to have an opinion in 1616, what percent really thought Copernican astronomy was “absurd in philosophy?” What percent thought Copernican ( or Keplerian) astronomy was right? What would similar numbers be in 1600?

        I do have a question about one scientist in particular, though. Thony describe’s Gilbert’s view in De Magnete as being geocentric with a rotating Earth. What I could find on Gilbert seemed to suggest he was ambiguous about whether the sun went around the Earth or vice versa and that he believed the stars were very far away in line with Copernicus. Did he say anything to suggest he was a Geocentrist?

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        1. “This still seems wrong. I remain skeptical that this sort of consensus existed even before the telescope.”

          This is getting frigging ridiculous. Can you go explain to Professor Robert S. Westman that he’s wrong and that you know more about pre1600 astronomers than he does, because I’m sure he’ll be fascinated by your vast knowledge. Then you can go and enlighten Professor Pietro Daniel Omodeo.

          “perhaps Tim could clarify what he means by ‘overwhelming majority.’ “

          Try “all of the hundreds of astronomers in the relevant period, minus the 9 to 11 Copernicans identified by Westman and Omodeo”.

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          1. You can also enlighten every expert history of astronomy and cosmology who has research and written on the topic in the last 70 or so years

        2. At the end of De magnete Gilbert argues in favour of diurnal rotation based on his erroneous belief that a suspended terrella rotates freely, he does not address annual rotation. It is an idea that Kepler picked up on and used to explain his heliocentric theory; the sun rotating on its axis and sweeping the planets around their orbits by magnetic force.

          The concept of geocentrism with diurnal rotation is one with a long history:
          The wheel in the sky keeps on turning

          1. I’m not particularly enjoying the verbal abuse, but I’m afraid I must persist, because the period between Copernicus and the telescope just isn’t making sense for me with an anti-Copernican consensus of the magnitude Tim is suggesting ( I think. He’s still refusing to give numbers.)

            The known Copernicans are just weirdly prominent, even by the standards of the day. Of the first astronomers to use a telescope (Galileo, Harriot, Marius, and I think there might have been one other contesting for priority) two were Copernicans before they knew what they would see. At the same time the first major attempt to improve on astronomical tables in 60 years was taking place, funded by the Austrian Habsburgs, who did they put in charge? Another Copernican (Kepler). And of course, one of the two sets of tables they were trying to replace were based on the work of Copernicus himself. How does this happen when 90+% of experts are firmly against Copernicus, finding his ideas “absurd and foolish?”

            So something funny is going on.

            Is this all a big coincidence?
            Were really good and innovative astronomers just extra likely to lean heliocentric, and therefore over represented?
            Was there a larger Copernican community that is missed by historical records, because they only mentioned it in personal correspondence that wasn’t saved, except in the case of the most prominent members who went on to become famous?
            Is Tim overestimating the number of contemporary astronomers for which we have clear evidence of their opinions on Copernicus?
            Or is it a combination of these factors?

          2. “I’m not particularly enjoying the verbal abuse”

            You haven’t been subjected to any “verbal abuse”, so calm down. You are, however, pretty obviously annoying people who have studied this stuff for years with a rather boneheaded combination of general ignorance of the subject combined with a determined effort at clutching at anything at all that allows you to dismiss the scholarship on this question. You now seem to think that unless you are given a list of pretty much every single astronomer working between 1543 and 1616, along with evidence they were not Copernicans, you can imagine some silent mass of heliocentrists that no scholar has noticed. This is a patheticially weak gambit.

            “I’m afraid I must persist, because the period between Copernicus and the telescope just isn’t making sense for me with an anti-Copernican consensus of the magnitude Tim is suggesting ( I think. He’s still refusing to give numbers.)”

            I’m not “refusing” anything. What you seem to be asking for is totally absurd. But since in a previous comment you were forced to concede that “78% or so” of pre-1616 scholars were not convinced about heliocentrism, we can further add to the growing list of non- heliocentrists working before 1616:
            Pedro de Medina
            Francesco Maurolico
            Aloysius Lilius
            Cornelius Gemma
            Antonio Mizauld
            Ignazio Danti
            William IV of Hesse-Kassel
            Henricus Brucaeus
            Valentin Naboth
            Conrad Dasypodius
            David Gans
            Sethus Calvisius
            Heinrich Decimator
            Lodovico delle Colombe
            Willebrord Snellius
            Charles Malapert
            Peter Crüger
            Pierre Hérigone
            Laurentius Paulinus Gothus

            How many are we up to now? I make it about 39 against in the relevant period, and I’m not even counting very minor figures, cartographers and others in associated fields of study. How many more do we have to add before you finally get the point?

            “Were really good and innovative astronomers just extra likely to lean heliocentric, and therefore over represented?”

            No, there were very good and very ordinary astronomers on both sides.

            “Was there a larger Copernican community that is missed by historical records, because they only mentioned it in personal correspondence that wasn’t saved, except in the case of the most prominent members who went on to become famous?”

            Jesus Christ. Hint – when you are having to desperately resort to evidence that we don’t have to prop up your position it’s usually a sign that you are wrong.

            “Is Tim overestimating the number of contemporary astronomers for which we have clear evidence of their opinions on Copernicus?”

            No.

            “Or is it a combination of these factors?”

            It’s none of these factors. It’s a factor you keep failing to realise: you are simply wrong.

          3. @ Ray

            “I’m not particularly enjoying the verbal abuse…”

            Neither I nor Tim has abused you verbally or otherwise, so I find this comment more than somewhat perplexing.

            “Of the first astronomers to use a telescope (Galileo, Harriot, Marius, and I think there might have been one other contesting for priority) two were Copernicans before they knew what they would see.”

            Your list is more than somewhat incomplete:

            Galileo Galilei: Copernican
            Thomas Harriot: Keplerian
            William Lower: Keplerian
            John Prydderch: Not Known possibly Keplerian
            Simon Marius: Tychonic
            Paolo Lembo: Tychonic
            Odo Van Maelcote: Tychonic
            Christopher Grienberger: Tychonic
            David Fabricius: Tychonic
            Johannes Fabricius: Unknown, probably Tychonic
            Rudolph Snell: Unknown
            Christen Longomontanus: Tychonic
            Cort Aslakssøn. Tychonic

            (I wish I knew more about the telescopic astronomy of Longomontanus and Aslakssøn)

            Contrary to popular belief the early telescopic observations only initially disproved some aspects of Aristotelian cosmology and had no effect for or against a geocentric or heliocentric astronomy. The somewhat later discovery of the phases of Venus (probably first observed by Paolo Lembo but certainly observed independently by Lembo, Galileo, Harriot and Marius) disproved a pure geocentric astronomy but was conform with a Tychonic or Heracleidian geo-heliocentric system, so I’m not quite sure what you are trying to say here.

            “At the same time the first major attempt to improve on astronomical tables in 60 years was taking place, funded by the Austrian Habsburgs, who did they put in charge? Another Copernican (Kepler).”

            Actually the new tables of Wilhelm IV of Hessen-Kassel predate the Rudolphine tables. Just as accurate they tend to get overlooked.

            Although official funded by Rudolf II, Kepler ended up paying for the Rudolphine Tables out of his own pocket. Also it was Tycho Brahe, who put Kepler in charge of compiling the tables from his data. Tycho also extracted the deathbed promise from Kepler that he would use the data to confirm Tycho’s astronomical system, a promise that Kepler went on to break.

            The tables based on Copernicus’ work, The Prutenic Tables, were compiled by Erasmus Reinhold an anti-Copernican!

            “Was there a larger Copernican community that is missed by historical records…”

            No!

          4. @Ray
            P.S. Your appeal to a vanished majority of Copernican reminds me of right wing politicians appealing to a ‘silent majority’ and is, I’m afraid, just as spurious.

          5. Who said anything about a Copernican majority?

            I think I’ve been consistently arguing that Anti-Copernicans represent something like 70-80% of expert opinion (of those who have an opinion) on the eve of the telescope, but 90+% ( which is how I’d take “overwhelming”) seems too high.

            Thony’s telescope list seems to support this. Of the 11 known opinions 3 (27%) are heliocentric. (Including one, possibly 2, that hadn’t been listed in our discussion to this point!) I do have a few questions there though:

            1) I thought the Jesuits on that list learned of the telescope from Galileo. Is that right? Also, can you comment on the degree to which Jesuit leadership might have influenced their opinions? Grienberger’s wiki page, for example, seems to indicate he was under some pressure to defend Aristotle in 1610.
            2)Are these opinions pre-telescope? There seems to be a suspiciously low contingent of outright Ptolemaists if so.

            As for the tables, Thony has not given a similar list of most important names, but surely Kepler was among the top 10 leaders in the field and probably in the top 5 in 1610 (To my understanding the tables were much anticipated decades before they were published.) If so, either heliocentrism was more popular than Tim says, or it was overrepresented here as well.

            As a minor note, I am lumping Keplerians with Copernicans, since in this period, neither Kepler nor the Church distinguished (Kepler’s books were banned in 1616 along with the rest, and Kepler published some of his work under the title of Epitome of Copernican Astronomy from 1617-1621.)

          6. @Ray

            Let’s go back to basics. When Westman said there were 10 Copernicans in the entire world in the years between 1543, publication of De revolutionibus, and 1600 he meant just that. All other mathematicians, astronomers and astrologers were non-Copernicans that is taken over those decades is several hundred people. Overwhelming is indeed the correct term for that.

            On the subject of the term overwhelming, since when are you the person who determines what that term means? If in politics somebody wins an election with 70% that is by a margin of 40% it is perfectly normal for the press to refer to the victory as overwhelming, so your 90% plus is in my opinion total rubbish. Also note above in the period described the number of non-Copernicans was with certainty more than 90%.

            The Jesuit astronomers of the Collegio Romano were using telescopes for astronomical observations well before Galileo published Sidereius Nuncius and before they contacted him about his own telescopic observations. The Jesuits rejected heliocentricity on solid scientific grounds, as did the majority of astronomers in the early seventeenth century, not because anybody told them to. It is also good to remember that it was the Collegio Romano astronomers who provided the scientific confirmation for Galileo’s observation that he so desperately needed.

            The early telescope users were all heliocentrists or geo-heliocentrists because by 1610 pure geocentrism was already becoming obsolete. However, to use this group to calculate percentages of heliocentrists and non-heliocentrist in the astronomical community as a whole is a fundamental misuse of statistics.

            What is this top ten or top five crap? There was no fucking league table of astronomers in the early seventeenth century. In fact in 1610 Kepler’s reputation was pretty shitty and his Astronomy Nova bombed. His reputation only really improved in the 1620s.

            Interestingly planetary tables don’t actually say anything about which astronomical system is the best, although Kepler bluffed people into believing that they did. What’s important about planetary tables is their predictive accuracy, nothing more and nothing less.

            This is my last contribution to this debate, I can’t be bothered to further explain things to someone who consistently contradicts the research results of all the professional historians of astronomy in the Early Modern Period, of which I am one, purely on the basis of his “feelings”. Go on believing your fairy stories if it makes you feel happy but don’t expect anybody, who knows what they are talking about to take you seriously.

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          7. Thony and Tim,

            Sorry we couldn’t have a more productive exchange. I guess I shall simply say my piece.

            I’m sorry, but I’m afraid you cannot bully me into believing there are hundreds of late 16th century astronomers whose opinions on Copernicus are known by giving me a list of 40 over 3 days. This is especially true since Tim started out by trying to bully me into believing that heliocentrism was not accepted by the majority of top astronomers by the 1670s, and then tried to pretend it didn’t happen. By the way, there were several on that list I could not independently confirm, and I by no means tried to check all of them. Moreover, your list of 16th century Copernicans is incomplete, even if we restrict ourselves to those who Omodeo says “did not restrict [themselves] to considering astronomy from a purely computational point of view, but also wrote on cosmological issues and in defense of Copernicus’s system.” I already noted you missed Lower in your list of Copernicans up to 1616.

            As for the issue of prominence and talent among astonomers and physicists, you seem to want to claim that such a thing does not exist. Nonetheless, Thony at least has grudgingly given a list (https://thonyc.wordpress.com/2010/06/02/extracting-the-stopper/) of contemporaries who he thinks were “on a level with Galileo” in terms of ability and scientific achievements and contributions. Of those who lived until 1616, a large majority of them had come to favor heliocentrism by that time. This would seem to be in tension with the claim that the evidence favored Tycho at this point, since it amounts to claiming that the best scientists are those who went against the evidence.

            Finally, I must say you both have been somewhat disingenous in your use of the term consensus, and your use of a claimed “non-Copernican” consensus to defend a clearly Anti-Copernican statement by the Church. This rhetoric is obviously meant to invoke modern arguments from scientific consensus, in particular in the context of climate change and evolution, where the level of support among scientists is in excess of 95%.

            1
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          8. “Sorry we couldn’t have a more productive exchange.”

            Sorry you couldn’t have an exchange without constantly shifting the goalposts every time it became clear you were wrong.

            “I’m sorry, but I’m afraid you cannot bully me into believing there are hundreds of late 16th century astronomers whose opinions on Copernicus are known by giving me a list of 40 over 3 days.”

            Thanks for that excellent example of you shifting the goalposts. No-one said there were “hundreds whose opinions on Copernicus are known“, that’s just something you’ve slipped in. What has been consistently said and what is found in the scholarship that you continue to ignore is that (i) there was a large consensus against Copernicus prior to 1616 and (ii) there were hundreds of other non-Copernican with no sign they were somehow “in the closet” on the matter, but who we don’t know if they had an explicit opinion on his theory. And why the fact we both added to the list of anti-Copernicans over three days is relevant I have no idea. Perhaps you think you are important and that we should have dropped everything we do to compile a list for a boneheaded recalcitrant because he didn’t like what the scholars we cited said on the matter. I’m afraid I for one had rather more important things to do.

            “This is especially true since Tim started out by trying to bully me into believing that heliocentrism was not accepted by the majority of top astronomers by the 1670s, and then tried to pretend it didn’t happen”

            Utter bullshit. I can’t help the fact that you misunderstood what I actually said. You, however, can help continuing to be deliberately obtuse after what I meant was explained to you. It’s this kind of pathetic snivelling that makes you impossible to take seriously.

            “even if we restrict ourselves to those who Omodeo says “did not restrict [themselves] to considering astronomy from a purely computational point of view, but also wrote on cosmological issues and in defense of Copernicus’s system.”

            “Restrict”?! Those who defended Copernicus’ system as cosmological reality is precisely what we’re talking about, for God’s sake.

            ” I already noted you missed Lower in your list of Copernicans up to 1616.”

            Which is pretty much the only useful contribution to be found in all your goalpost shifting and weak quibbling. I’ve amended my article to add Lower, not that it makes any substantive difference to my point.

            “Finally, I must say you both have been somewhat disingenous in your use of the term consensus, and your use of a claimed “non-Copernican” consensus to defend a clearly Anti-Copernican statement by the Church. This rhetoric is obviously meant to invoke modern arguments from scientific consensus, in particular in the context of climate change and evolution, where the level of support among scientists is in excess of 95%.”

            I’m afraid you don’t get to tell me how I used a word or what my intention in using it was. But your arguments here certainly do bring to mind those who deny climate change and evolution.

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  18. I guess it may come down to a question of semantics. What do you think widespread support means in this passage?

    “While Kepler’s model had widespread acceptance by the late seventeenth century, it was still considered sufficiently controversial for Newton to spend several pages discussing the observational evidence in favour in his Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica (1687).”

    if it means something like 70% of physicists and astronomers believed in heliocentric theory at the time, it’s probably roughly what I mean by consensus. If you think consensus means more than that, as I said in my previous comment, I’m skeptical that there was a late 16th century consensus that Copernicus was wrong.

  19. A minor point in relation to the delay in publication of Copernicus’s work: The comparison that leapt to my mind was Darwin.

    Of course, the economic organization of the academic enterprise, then and now, is also not irrelevant.

    I only just ran across your work, via “grumpy uncle” PZ Myers. That’s a perfect description, as long as you add said uncle’s impressively progressive politics. Thanks for what you do.

  20. “the notorious nineteenth century polemicist, Andrew Dickson White”
    I read the first two paragraphs of his book. He deserves credit for unambiguously making clear that his book merely consists of arguing for a predetermined conclusion – also called cherry picking. Thus he has saved me a few precious hours I otherwise never would have gotten back.

  21. Hi Tim,
    Excellent work. You state that “Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking and Neil deGrasse Tyson” “peddled” the Draper-White theory, perhaps particularly in regards to Copernicus, but provided no links or references of them doing so. Where might we find such peddlings?

    1. I said they have peddled the Conflict Thesis, but I did not say anything about them on the specific myths about Copernicus. In the book that accompanied his Cosmos TV series, Sagan perpetuates the idea that the Greeks discovered science, but it was lost in the Middle Ages thanks to “suppression of disquieting facts …. the distaste for experiment …. [and] the embrace of mysticism” that brought about “a long mystical sleep” until the dawning of a new age of reason with “Leonardo and Columbus and Copernicus” (pp. 212-13). He also claimed Galileo languished “in a Catholic dungeon threatened with torture”, neither of which is correct.

      in his documentary Curiosity: Did God Create the Universe? (2011) Hawking amused his viewers with a droll story about how Pope John XXI declared the idea of immutable laws of nature heretical and then, ironically, died a few months later when the law of gravity caused his palace roof to fall on his head. Which would be rather more amusing if it were true, but it’s nonsense.

      And on Twitter Neil deGrasse Tyson has repeatedly perpetuated the myth that the idea that the earth was round was “lost in the Dark Ages – see my article on the Myth of the Medieval Flat Earth for the details.

      All three are evidence that people who want to understand history should pay attention to historians, not celebrity scientists who haven’t studied history since high school.

      1. On my blog I have several posts dealing with examples of NdGT peddling bullshit about the history of science and a great put down of Sagan from the Cambridge History of Science Vol. 2 Medieval Science because of his statements about the subject.

      2. Thanks for the clarification. A reader might come away with the idea, at the end, that the modern scientific triumverate were promulgating the hierophobic Copernicus story that you debunk.

        I have a copy of Cosmos, but cannot find those quotes on the pages you cite. Perhaps you meant a different book? Mine is from 1980, ISBN 0394502949.

        Yes, Tyson has been seen at other times trying to connect Flat-Eartherism to pre-Columbian times, implying that it finally took Columbus to prove once and for all that the earth was not flat. Yet, there were people who denied the spherical earth using the reasoning of their day, such as Lactantius.

        As for whether the Holy See aggressively retarded scientific progress, we should remember that the Church was very reactionary when it came to core beliefs, and edicts such as the Condemnation of 1277 go to great lengths to forbid certain ideas from being promulgated. As late as 1870, Pope Gregory XVI thought railroads were the work of the devil. As for John XXI, he did die after a roof collapse, but you are saying that he at some point in his life declared God was not subject to the immutable laws of nature?

        You really think Sagan and Tyson never studied history since high school? I sense a bit of vitriol.

        Thanks for replying!

        1. NdGT’s ignorance of the history of science is so great and so consistent on both the Internet and his version of Cosmos that if he ever did study it, then he was a F– student.

        2. “A reader might come away with the idea, at the end, that the modern scientific triumverate were promulgating the hierophobic Copernicus story that you debunk.”

          Since the sentence in which I mention them says no such thing, makes no mention of Copernicus and clearly refers to the Conflict Thesis generally, I can’t see how any reader with even basic English comprehension skills could come away with that total misreading of what I said.

          “I have a copy of Cosmos, but cannot find those quotes on the pages you cite. Perhaps you meant a different book?”

          No, I mean Cosmos. I’m referring to the page numbers in the 1983 Futura edition. Unless you think I’m making all this up.

          “Yet, there were people who denied the spherical earth using the reasoning of their day, such as Lactantius.”

          Lactantius’ views on the matter were highly atypical, were largely ignored in the east and were totally unknown in the west until after the Middle Ages. So he is irrelevant to the basic error of fact peddled by Degrasse Tyson.

          “the Condemnation of 1277 go to great lengths to forbid certain ideas from being promulgated.”

          None of which were scientific ideas – they reflected a philosophical squabble between the Arts Faculty and the Theologians in Paris. And, as such, the 1277 Condemnations were made by the Bishop of Paris about the University of Paris only. So if that’s the best you can come up with, you’re illustrating my point nicely.

          “As late as 1870, Pope Gregory XVI thought railroads were the work of the devil.”

          Yes, some of those reactionary Popes in the late nineteenth century resisted modernisation. But it’s not like Pope Gregory declared Boyle’s Law to be heretical and said the trains ran because they were propelled by demons. This is an example of social conservatism, not anti-science.

          “As for John XXI, he did die after a roof collapse, but you are saying that he at some point in his life declared God was not subject to the immutable laws of nature?”

          I’m saying Hawking’s claim that he declared any belief in natural laws “heretical” is total and utter bullshit.

          “You really think Sagan and Tyson never studied history since high school? I sense a bit of vitriol.”

          I see no sign of a higher than high school level grasp of the relevant history. And I sense a weird defensiveness over these pop celebrity non-historians being called out for mangling history.

          1. Hi again,

            You said, originally, “In the book that accompanied his Cosmos TV series, Sagan…(pp. 212-13)…”

            To which I replied, “I cannot find those quotes…”

            Apparently, there are numerous editions of “Cosmos,” [see: https://www.goodreads.com/work/editions/3237312-cosmos ], so I suggest you procure the original from 1980, and not some knock-off edition, if you wish to make proper citations. Nonetheless, Sagan goes into some detail about the demise of scientific “work” under the Aristotelean premises of the social pecking order, and so on. You are obviously oversimplifying this, but I know, blogging requires brevity.

            As for the Hawking issue, you say that his story about the Iberian John is “bullshit,” but it does exist in the Ecclesiastical Annals, although not contemporaneously. So, are you saying you can disprove this?

            Finally, I don’t see how you, or anyone, could separate the effects of the Condemnation of 1277 (same year as John XXI perished, ironically) and matters of cosmology across Christendom, from which Copernicus was working, even in the early 16th Century. The scholastics in Paris, after all, were a part of the crowd that Copernicus knew would take issue with an immobile firmament and a mobile Earth; his theory was condemned in 1616, after all, but only after inciting the kind of heresies that Galilei and Bruno were on about.

          2. “so I suggest you procure the original from 1980, and not some knock-off edition, if you wish to make proper citations.”

            Your pomposity is starting to get annoying. The edition I cited was published by Futura, a science imprint of the British publishers Macdonald and Co, who were Sagan’s British publishers in the 80s (now part of Little Brown and Co). It was published, as I said, in 1983 and so I found it quite quickly on your list of editions (though that list gets the year of publication wrong):

            https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2307005.Cosmos

            So it is not some “knock-off edition” and I cited it correctly. It would be hard not to, given that I have it sitting here on my desk in front of me as I write. The quotes in question can be found on the pages I cited, about 14 pages into Chapter VII. So I think it’s you who needs to be more careful.

            “Nonetheless, Sagan goes into some detail about the demise of scientific “work” under the Aristotelean premises of the social pecking order, and so on. You are obviously oversimplifying this”

            I’m not “oversimplifying” anything. Sagan clearly bought into the old myths about the Middle Ages as a dark age after which, in the age of “Leonardo and Columbus and Copernicus”, he says “the Western world reawakened” (p. 213)

            “you say that his story about the Iberian John is “bullshit,” but it does exist in the Ecclesiastical Annals, although not contemporaneously. So, are you saying you can disprove this?”

            What I’m saying is bullshit is this idea that John XXI saying that God was not bound by the laws of nature somehow means he was “so threatened by the idea of laws of nature that he decreed them a heresy” and this makes the laws of nature applying the fatal collapse of his palace ironic. That is a stupid misrepresentation of what John XXXI said and what it meant.

            “I don’t see how you, or anyone, could separate the effects of the Condemnation of 1277 (same year as John XXI perished, ironically) and matters of cosmology across Christendom, from which Copernicus was working, even in the early 16th Century. “

            Then you’re going to have to show me what, exactly, in the 1277 Condemnations would have restricted Copernicus.

            “The scholastics in Paris, after all, were a part of the crowd that Copernicus knew would take issue with an immobile firmament and a mobile Earth”

            Not because of anything in the 1277 Condemnations. Their objections were, as I explain in detail above, almost completely scientific in nature.

            ” his theory was condemned in 1616, after all, but only after inciting the kind of heresies that Galilei and Bruno “

            Bruno is largely irrelevant here. And the objections to Galileo need to be understood in the context of the religious politics of the early 1600s. Until then, as I explain in detail above, the Church did not have much of a problem with Copernicus at all. Even after the 1616 ruling, the Index did not ban Copernicus’ book. It just ordered some passages needed to be corrected to note, correctly, that the theory was not proven fact. And even that ruling was largely ignored outside of Italy.

          3. “separate the effects of the Condemnation of 1277 (same year as John XXI perished, ironically) and matters of cosmology across Christendom, from which Copernicus was working, even in the early 16th Century.”
            Eeehhhh …. you are the one who has to do some explaining, not ToN. See, Copernicus was backed by RCC authorities like bishop Giese, cardinal Von Schönberg and pope Clement VII. Perhaps that Condemnation from 250 years before didn’t mean anymore in the early 16th Century what you desperately want it to mean. Times were achanging, you know, including the RCC.

          4. “And even that ruling was largely ignored outside of Italy.”
            The ban was even ignored within Italy. Galilei’s last book sold 50 copies in Rome, of all cities, within a very short time. Nobody suffered for it. So much for the dreadful Inquisition.

        3. One big problem with the Conflict Thesis is that all medieval natural philosophers (like Oresme and Buridan) enthusiastically accepted the Aristotelean paradigm (including the Ptolemaean model or variations). And that was an integral part of the Grand Synthesis of what we today call theology, philosophy and science as developed under the firm guidance of the RCC (think especially of Thomas of Aquino) from the conquest of Toledo on. The RCC simply had no reason to brutalize any natural philosopher; it wouldn’t have made any sense. It’s in this context that you have to evaluate

          “edicts such as the Condemnation of 1277”
          What’s really sad is that such physicists etc. apparently don’t get Thomas Kuhn (his thoughts on paradigm shifts) either. Hence they are incapable of appreciating the tremendous achievements of Copernicus, Brahe, Stevin, Kepler and Galilei; all because of cheap propaganda.

    2. Neil deGrasse Tyson has explicitly praised the conflict thesis in general and the execrable White book in particular:

      “Let there be no doubt that as they are currently practiced, there is no common ground between science and religion. As was thoroughly documented in the nineteenth century tome, A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, by the historian and one time president of Cornell University Andrew D. White, history reveals a long and combative relationship between religion and science, depending on who was in control of society at the time. The claims of science rely on experimental verification, while the claims of religions rely on faith. These are irreconcilable approaches to knowing, which ensures an eternity of debate wherever and whenever the two camps meet.”

      Holy Wars
      By Neil deGrasse Tyson
      Natural History Magazine
      October 1999

  22. Tim wrote: “I’m not ‘oversimplifying’ anything. Sagan clearly bought into the old myths about the Middle Ages as a dark age after which, in the age of “Leonardo and Columbus and Copernicus”, he says “the Western world reawakened” (p. 213)”

    Well, yes, it is generally accepted that the Italian Renaissance of the late 15th C. was a reawakening.

    Yet, the quote I have in the proper 1980 edition is on page 188, and it reads: “In the recognition by Pythagoras and Plato that the Cosmos is knowable, that there is a mathematical underpinning to nature, they greatly advanced the cause of SCIENCE. But in the suppression of of disquieting facts, the sense that science should be kept for a small elite, the distaste for experiment, the embrace of mysticism, and the easy acceptance of slave societies, they set back the human enterprise. After a long mystical sleep in which the TOOLS OF SCIENTIFIC INQUIRY lay mouldering, the IONIAN APPROACH, in some cases transmitted through scholars at the Alexandrian Library, was finally rediscovered. The Western world reawakened. EXPERIMENT AND OPEN INQUIRY became once more respectable. Forgotten books and fragments were again read. Leonardo and Columbus and Copernicus were inspired by or independently retraced parts of this ANCIENT GREEK TRADITION. There is in our time MUCH IONIAN SCIENCE, although not in politics and religion, and a fair amount of courageous free inquiry. But there are also appalling superstitions and deadly ethical ambiguities. We are flawed by ancient contradictions. (EMPHASIS added.)

    So, I don’t know why you selectively (and severely) edited your Sagan quote, but it’s obvious that Richard Carrier is correct about your tactics – highly dissembling. I guess that’s what the pro-faith crowd has to do these days – be as mendacious and noisy as possible.

    1. “Well, yes, it is generally accepted that the Italian Renaissance of the late 15th C. was a reawakening.”

      Many people, including it seems both you and Sagan, may think that the Italian Renaissance involved some great “reawakening”, but anyone who has studied modern scholarship (as opposed to nineteenth century stuff) knows that idea has been abandoned about a century ago. When it came to natural philosophy, western scholars had never fallen “asleep” in the first place, though they were well aware that a large amount of what the ancients had access to had been lost in the fall of the Western Empire. But the rediscovery of this came in the twelth century, not the fifteenth. Most of what was recovered in the fifteenth was not natural philosophy, but plays, poetry and history. The Humanists were either not very interested in mathematics, logic and proto-science or didn’t need to rediscover it because it had already been recovered in the twelth and thirteenth centuries. Of course, the idea of the science stuff being the main focus in the Middle Ages and the humanist poetic stuff being the main object of the “Renaissance” doesn’t fit some people’s prejudices.

      “Yet, the quote I have in the proper 1980 edition is on page 188”

      Why the hell is the 1980 edition the “proper” one? It’s not like the 1983 edition is some kind of abbreviation or recension (let alone a “knock-off copy”) – it’s exactly the same text. And if I had been writing a formal article rather than a comment on a blog post I would have cited the edition and year of publication in full, but I wasn’t. The fact remains that everything I said IS in your copy, you were just too lazy to find it.

      “and it reads …. I don’t know why you selectively (and severely) edited your Sagan quote”

      For reasons of space and brevity – I highlighted the elements that illustrated what I was referring to. The full quote doesn’t change my point in the slightest. None of the parts I didn’t quote change what Sagan is saying or the fact he is clinging to an outdated conception of the medieval period that is factually wrong.

      “it’s obvious that Richard Carrier is correct about your tactics – highly dissembling. I guess that’s what the pro-faith crowd has to do these days – be as mendacious and noisy as possible.”

      “Pro faith”! Hilarious. And fucking Carrier?! Go away you fatuous clown.

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      1. Ed you bring the following quote with your own emphasis:

        Leonardo and Columbus and Copernicus were inspired by or independently retraced parts of this ANCIENT GREEK TRADITION.

        Neither Leonardo nor Columbus were inspired by or independently retraced parts of the ancient Greek tradition and it would seem that Copernicus went searching for ancient Greek precedence after he came up with his heliocentric hypothesis, although he then struck out the reference to Aristarchus from the manuscript of his book. Facts, which rather leave Sagan’s claim in tatters

        1. “although he then struck out the reference to Aristarchus from the manuscript of his book.”
          Do you have evidence for this? It’s a pet hypothesis of mine that Copernicus was inspired by Aristarchus. That’s very hard or impossible to confirm or falsify (and such inspiration only is recommendable – I don’t mean to belittle the great man from Thorn) but demonstrating that Copernicus was aware of Aristarchus’ heliocentrism will highly interest me.

          1. I don’t think Copernicus knew of Aristarchus in 1510 when he first came up with his heliocentric hypothesis. There were three references to Aristarchus in the manuscript of De revolutionibus, two that have nothing to do with heliocentricity and stayed in the printed version and one that does that he deleted.

            The motion of the sun and moon can be demonstrated , I admit also with an earth that is stationary: This is, however, less suitable for the remaining planets: Philolaus believed in the earth’s motion for these similar reasons. This is plausible because Aristarchus of Samos too held the same view according to some people…

            You can find the details in the English translation On the Revolutions: translation and commentary by Edward Rosen, The Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore and London, ppb. 1992 p. 25

    2. “Well, yes, it is generally accepted that the Italian Renaissance of the late 15th C. was a reawakening.”
      Yeah, all those scholastics did their work asleep.
      Not to mention that several popes in that time actively stimulated the research of documents that had become available – hey, exactly the same what happened after the conquest of Toledo!

      “Forgotten books and fragments were again read.”
      And it doesn’t occur to you that this might have had something to do with the fall of Constantinople?! Again – mediëval scholars always were interested in old texts, even if they were poor translations from flawed summaries.

      “the distaste for experiment”
      As if the old Greeks were so fond of experiment. Perhaps you should consider the meaning of Plato’s cave analogy.

      “the easy acceptance of slave societies”
      BWAHAHAHAHA! Again you find this especially among old Greeks and Romans. In the second half of the Middle Ages slavery had largely gone in Western Europe. Serfdom disappeared after 1350 CE.
      Hey, why not practice what you preach and do some research and thinking for yourself iso parroting a non-authority as far as history is concerned?

      “the pro-faith crowd”
      BWAHAHAHAHA!
      The only faith I have is in empirical data – especially the ones propagandists like you prefer to ignore.

    3. “…but it’s obvious that Richard Carrier is correct about your tactics…”

      Yup, as I suspected: This entire cyber-slapping you’ve copped was more about you trying to trip this Tim O’Neill up and then grasp that straw to entirely discredit him. And although this has inevitably failed (and you’ve dropped your guard): This will no doubt be enough for you to self-delude yourself with. And you’ll of course not apply this same standard of nit-picking to Carrier et al.

      It is very amusing how you also place Tim O’Neill amongst the “pro-faith crowd” when the content of the articles on this blog are no less damaging to Christianity.

      I have to wonder if there is any mythicist out there beyond Robert Price with a mental age beyond teenaged…

      1. How cruel of you – you want to rob the poor guy from his simple and comforting scheme of atheists wearing white hats and christians wearing black ones.
        Also I’m not sure why you need to insult teenagers. In my experience they accept inconvenient facts easier than most JMs.

    4. Sagan’s praise of Antiquity over the Middle Ages is especially ridiculous in regard to this claim:

      “and the easy acceptance of slave societies”

      Sure, the Middle Ages were much more accepting of slavery than Antiquity (or the early-modern period).

  23. Hi Tim, I’ve looked for an introduction to Copernicus on Amazon and found Copernicus: A very short introduction by Owen Gingerich, an astronomer and historian of science that I’m pretty sure you know. But a review of this book struck me badly : this reader said that verbatim “now … it may seem preposterous that people ever thought that the Sun revolved around the earth and that the Earth remained stationary. Many from those era may have suspected it, but they lived in hideously dangerous times when spreading ideas could lead to prolonged and gruesome death. …. Centuries ago, the most obvious evidence couldn’t stand up to the power of the medieval church. Many at the time probably chose to believe prescribed truths than look reality, and their own impeding mortality, in the face.”” And ” Sometimes around … 1514, [Copernicus] wrote a Commentariolus [that] openly expounded a sun centered universe. But, probably for obvious reasons [here we come], he kept it only to his himself and some friends.” Then ” Osiander had inserted some text suggesting that the book only served for calculating purposes. Though aggravating, it may have actually saved the book from instant censure [here we come again]”.
    Now, is this review fucked up, or Gingerich is actually a bad historian of science? What’s your opinion?

  24. I haven’t read Owen’s Very Short Introduction, but he is one of the world’s leading historians of astronomy and an almost unrivalled expert on Copernicus, although I personally don’t agree with him on everything he writes. That descriptions doesn’t fit with anything that I imagine Owen would write

  25. I have since read the review you quote from and it is, to put it mildly, bizarre. For example, the author writes:

    “Some years passed while Copernicus served as an indentured servant to his uncle to work off his Italian travel debts.”

    This statement is complete rubbish and can only be from the authors fantasy, certainly not from Owen Gingerich.

    1. Thank you Thony for your answer. I was quite confused because I had heard of Gingerich as a great historian of science but that review seemed completely garbage. Probably the author of the review didn’t even read the book, but I think there’s the possibility that a person with strong prejudices and a priori biases doesn’t change his mind even if they’re shown evidences against those prejudices. I hope this case it’s the former. Oddly enough, I found another book, Darwin’s ghosts, in Amazon.it (I’m Italian), with other stupid reviews (in English) that I’m sure will make you laugh -or cry, depending on the mood. https://www.amazon.it/Darwins-Ghosts-Search-First-Evolutionists/dp/1408831015

      The reviewer Lindosland even recruits Joseph Priestly and Lavoiser in the army of martyrs for science! Of course, when they are non-existent, they have to be invented. And even if the Galileo affair was really a science vs religion case, that he was persecuted for daring to say that ‘everything’ doesn’t revolve around the Earth would be technically still wrong, because I don’t think that the systems of Martianus Capella or Tycho were ever condemned. The reviewer below asks himself where we would be if the Church wouldn’t have hindered science and free thinking for the last 2000 years. I’m not interested in this book, but reading this make me feel like a punch in the gut. However, thanks, I’ll read Gingerich’s book.

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